Just trying to fire you up man. Looks like it worked. But for real to say I am potentially encouraging some one to hurt themselves is assinine. If people are doing what you say they are, well they probabaly deserve to get hurt.

 

> Just trying to fire you up man. Looks like it worked.

nah man....the only thing "fired up" here is that bowl of red hair i burned off. :-)

> But for real to say I am potentially encouraging some one to hurt themselves is assinine.

not as i see it dude. there are people that know absolutely nothing about atv's yet they want the biggest and baddest beast available as their first atv even though they havent the skills or experience to handle it. you cannot downplay valid safety concerns to those who dont know any better because they just _might_ find themselves in that very position. swing arm quads are _great_ but they can indeed become far more dangerous really quick if you attempt to crawl rocks with them.

> If people are doing what you say they are, well they probabaly deserve to get hurt.

ouch man....thats just......bad. nobody deserves to be hurt like that.

in all fairness i do not own a kawi, i have no intention of ever owning one (unless they build an irs or other model with some articulation in its *** end). i did ride one (at my local kawi dealer, he lets me test everything he sells) and i attempted to crawl on some construction debris behind the building........right up until i rolled it on its side for the very reasons ive listed. my preference is the ACT suspension by arctic cat which is a live axle that pivots independently of the opposite side via 4 independent control arms. the articulation radius is more than double that of even irs. ive taken my arctic cat through the same place in both directions many times and never even came close to laying it over. this does not make my arctic cat "better" than a kawi. it makes it better and SAFER for rocks/debris. not many people need such a specific purpose quad but for those that do, its the quad to have. my intention is not to put the kawi down in any way, or change anyones mind about buying one unless their riding totally warrants another type of quad. i just feel we owe it to those that dont know anybetter to point out the good _and_ bad of any product.

 

I have to agree with you on all accounts Hardcore.

 

Been there, done that. Scared to death to take my honda over stuff that my Arctic cat goes over. Uneven rocks can stain your shorts quick when you see one of those tires come off the ground and the quad starts teetering back and forth on the two opposite front and rear wheels. Thats why I only wanted an IRS quad after having the swingaxle AC. Of course, the Grizzly 660 is really not any better than a swingaxle with the way the sway bar limits it. All I really gained with it is ground clearance. Did you see the picture of the 500i AC in the rocks? Now that looks impressive. Note that the racks are still flat even and the suspenion is totally compressed to two sides. I don't see any other quad handling rocks better than this one right now. Not even a sportsman, which does extremely well.

Of course, not everyone rides in rocks, so it obviously doesn't apply. I don't get offended when people say that stuff does better in the mud than my arctic cat, but then I don't ride in the mud much so it doesn't apply to me. I can see that others are better, and I'm not bothered by that. I got what I have for my purposes. I don't normally argue with things that are obvious, but I hate the braggers here. Whether they are talking about something I have or not, it doesn't matter. Those "Mine's better" guys are normally idiots and youngsters. And of course, just replying doesn't mean that somebody took offense.

 

Hardcore, you rolled a Kawi over while attempting to climb some construction debris? What did you do wrong? I've ridden my Prairie up a lot of loose hills and off-camber crap without mishap. You ride an Arctic Cat/Suzuki and you call the Prairie a ****-poor quad? How long have you been around atvs? The Prairie is a very stable platform and I find it more than up to most tasks. I can see possible irs advantages but I also see several reasons to have a solid axle. Where I ride, I've seen several rear cv failures on Polaris Sportsman 500s. These were fairly new bikes, too. With all the solid axle wheelers I've had I've never had a problem. I'm pro-solid axle right now and with the power I've seen these 650s throw out. I just can't wait to get one.

 

> Scared to death to take my honda over stuff that my Arctic cat goes over.

my cat has spoiled me so bad that i feel like a newbie junior rider when im on something else. :-)

> Uneven rocks can stain your shorts quick when you see one of those tires come off the ground and the quad starts teetering back and forth on the two opposite front and rear wheels.

yup! the most recent accident i witnessed involved a 70 year old man with 30 years of atv/atc experience. same old way ive seen it so many times.....250 xplorer (swing arm) he had just met me and my brother and wanted to ride with us. i climbed a hazardous area and looked back and was totally surprised to see the old man attempting to follow my route. his back tire went up and took the other one in the air. i attempted to yell down but it was too late. his front tire started up another rock causing him to pivot back and roll. the only thing that stopped him from losing his quad forever over the side of the cliff was my brother put his own cat in front of the tumbling quad to stop it from rolling over the edge. his xplorer was only a few months old but he told us he was trading it in on a sportsman after he watched my brother follow my route also without incident.

> I don't see any other quad handling rocks better than this one right now.

are you including the new ACT cats too? the new irs looks great but i dont see how it can articulate like the ACT because it still has about half of the articulation radius as the ACT. im going to test drive one once my dealer gets them in and ill sure give the update then.

> Not even a sportsman, which does extremely well.

yes, the sportsman does do extremely well. if me and the local polaris dealer can ever agree on what one is worth ill be getting one for my wife.

>I don't get offended when people say that stuff does better in the mud than my arctic cat, but then I don't ride in the mud much so it doesn't apply to me. I can see that others are better, and I'm not bothered by that. I got what I have for my purposes.


EXACTLY!

 

Andy, have you put any kind of a load on the rear of your 660? How much squat are you looking at with, say, you and 200 lb.s of deer corn on the back? Is there any significant change in height? Appreciate any information, probably be a coin-flip between the two (650-660) when I decide.

 

>Hardcore, you rolled a Kawi over while attempting to climb some construction debris?

i didnt roll it over, i rolled it on its side. i was able to stop it from going completely over.

>What did you do wrong?

i attempted to climb mounds of busted up concrete with a swing arm quad. thats the _only_ thing i did wrong.

> I've ridden my Prairie up a lot of loose hills and off-camber crap without mishap.

then your definition of "hills" and "off-camber" are weak in comparison.

> You ride an Arctic Cat/Suzuki and you call the Prairie a ****-poor quad?

ok......pay attention here. for _my_ usage, yes....the prarie is indeed a **** poor quad.

> How long have you been around atvs?

i just bought my cat 4 months ago. this after taking a few years off after my daughter was born. before that i have over 10 years of atv/atc experience with only one injury which was a couple months ago. i was bringing my cat down a hill so steep and wet that several other quads already rolled trying to come down it. when my baby brother made it successfully i had to try it too. rolled the *** end up over my head. ouchy.

>The Prairie is a very stable platform and I find it more than up to most tasks.

its _very_ stable so long as you can keep 4 tires on the ground. when you start into extreme terrain you will think you are on a boat in rough seas.

> I can see possible irs advantages but I also see several reasons to have a solid axle.

im not talking about irs. im talking about ACT which is a solid axle that pivots independently of the other side. instead of a swing arm it uses 4 control arms that allows excellent articulation.

> I'm pro-solid axle right now and with the power I've seen these 650s throw out. I just can't wait to get one.

i do hope you enjoy it dude. im not against the kawi 650. im against the kawi 650 (or any swing arm quad) in extreme terrain. ride it like you stole it dude.....just make sure its right for the type of riding youll be doing.

 

I've been around these wheelers ever since there was a such a thing. And I have owned about all of them as well. I've ridden up steep stuff, down steep stuff, if you need definitions look in the dictionary. You're possible advantage is minimal, if it even exists, and if you rolled a Kawasaki over on a junk-pile, I attribute that to rider error. Let's wait a couple of years to see who has the ****-poor quad. The bashing thing has been done-to-death around here.

 

> I've been around these wheelers ever since there was a such a thing.

.....and in all that time you obviously didnt learn much based on what you wrote below.

> You're possible advantage is minimal, if it even exists,

ha ha....stick to the mud or the sand dunes or whatever it is that you ride dude. its obvious youve never been on very steep, very rocky trails.

>if you rolled a Kawasaki over on a junk-pile, I attribute that to rider error.

ha ha.....yeah....thats gotta be it.

youre right dude.....i cant ride worth a ****. i dont know 2 things about it. im amazed that i am even allow to share the same forum with you.

> Let's wait a couple of years to see who has the ****-poor quad.

look.....pay attention here.....im NOT bashing the kawi as a decent quad. it is a **** poor rock crawler. i am a rock crawler. therefore for MY uses it is a **** poor quad. i have NEVER presented it any other way than how it applies to ME. try putting your blinding pride down long enough to recognize that. it doesnt make you any less of a man, it doesnt make your ***** any shorter, to recognize the limitations of a piece of machinery.

i hope you get many years of happy service from your quad. if you _do_ put it in the rocks i sincerely hope that you will at least be aware of the dangers. i have not said _anything_ in an attempt to say one quad is better than another. anything ive said is to give newbies that dont know any better a "heads up" so that they have at least been made aware of clearly established and recognized differences by ANY experienced rock crawler that you dont seem to know anything about.