Talked with dynojet about lakota's
#11
12-13-2001, 12:55 AM
I agree with them, but only to a point.
I believe the plug read works to a point.
For instence, the plug read worked on my lakota to get me to the #134 main, but not much further.
So my point being it can get you close, but the type of tuning dynojet and supertrapp are talking about is way out of our reach as far as the equipment and money needed.
My way of going about it is (and this is just my opinion) use the plug read, get my self close, then start experimenting.
Like I start at the bottom, air/fuel mixture screw, the bike has to idle perfect for me and I must have total throttle response off idle, like just giving it a couple of 3/8" wacks of the throttle, it has to respond.
Then the mid range, same thing but 3/4" wacks, must respond instantly all the way through to 3/4 throttle, it has to if not when you get on it and put it in gear the load will further delay what you have.
The top, I usualy do the lower two circuts and then keep going down on the main until performance drops then I go back up one.
see when we do the mods to our bikes the performance jump is graet, so your happy, actualy it's good to ride it like that for a while so you know how it runs now, but if you list your, I won't say hesitations but maybe that one low spot while exiting a turn or like I found a bad recovery time while trying to work the throttle during a wheelie.
These are the little things I go after, they may seem small, but if I add up all these little things I find, hay have you ever hierd that it cost about a $100 a horse power over stock, well if we're out playing and finding things and working on our quads (wich we all love to do) could you use some free horse power
my point is this, my changes thus far from my original set up have realy givven atleast one horse over my mid range.
Just the installation of the stock needle (I had your set up except 12 disc) gave me a big jump in mid range.
Tomorrow when I get home I will be trying dynojets suggestions and as usual I'll be rite back here telling you all that I find.
You know stebob I was thinking last night, we feel different things on our quads because of the 13T sprocket, remember a couple weeks ago I put the 12T back on, well it's because the 13T will amplify these problems. and your rite the 12T was very responsive a wheelie machine, so just that mod may be the difference we have in seeing different things.
Now with the carb set up I have now,the 13T out wheelies the 12T wheelies a couple weeks ago When are you going to get off the 6.99 any way.
Talk to you soon!
I believe the plug read works to a point.
For instence, the plug read worked on my lakota to get me to the #134 main, but not much further.
So my point being it can get you close, but the type of tuning dynojet and supertrapp are talking about is way out of our reach as far as the equipment and money needed.
My way of going about it is (and this is just my opinion) use the plug read, get my self close, then start experimenting.
Like I start at the bottom, air/fuel mixture screw, the bike has to idle perfect for me and I must have total throttle response off idle, like just giving it a couple of 3/8" wacks of the throttle, it has to respond.
Then the mid range, same thing but 3/4" wacks, must respond instantly all the way through to 3/4 throttle, it has to if not when you get on it and put it in gear the load will further delay what you have.
The top, I usualy do the lower two circuts and then keep going down on the main until performance drops then I go back up one.
see when we do the mods to our bikes the performance jump is graet, so your happy, actualy it's good to ride it like that for a while so you know how it runs now, but if you list your, I won't say hesitations but maybe that one low spot while exiting a turn or like I found a bad recovery time while trying to work the throttle during a wheelie.
These are the little things I go after, they may seem small, but if I add up all these little things I find, hay have you ever hierd that it cost about a $100 a horse power over stock, well if we're out playing and finding things and working on our quads (wich we all love to do) could you use some free horse power
my point is this, my changes thus far from my original set up have realy givven atleast one horse over my mid range.
Just the installation of the stock needle (I had your set up except 12 disc) gave me a big jump in mid range.
Tomorrow when I get home I will be trying dynojets suggestions and as usual I'll be rite back here telling you all that I find.
You know stebob I was thinking last night, we feel different things on our quads because of the 13T sprocket, remember a couple weeks ago I put the 12T back on, well it's because the 13T will amplify these problems. and your rite the 12T was very responsive a wheelie machine, so just that mod may be the difference we have in seeing different things.
Now with the carb set up I have now,the 13T out wheelies the 12T wheelies a couple weeks ago When are you going to get off the 6.99 any way.
Talk to you soon!
#12
12-13-2001, 10:00 PM
Gaff- saw your reply in the yamaha forum. (i guess you are not pure green) You are welcome to come down anytime and eat some raptor dust. I will even let you ride it. I word of caution though. Stebob stopped by on his way through to San Angelo, 14mins into his ride the rains came. Always looking for people to play on the play ground. Did you ever figure out the handle bars? I am currently looking for bars for my raptor that are 2 inches taller with no luck. Keep up the good info, i enjoy reading your replies. I started out on 3 kawi's before i jumped quads. Looking to come back in the future. By the way it is stock, not "stalk"lol lol lol. I could not resist. That cracked me up at 3 am when that guy ask you way you typed it that way. lol later
#13
12-14-2001, 08:38 AM
Yah an you wouldn't believe how many times I've had to go back and spell it rite. I haven't bought them yet,only because I've been working on another bike, and the mrs. asked if I would lay off the check book untill after christmas.
Thiers not a bunch of choices in atv handle bars, the 300EX dementions look the best, although I wanted a little more pulback with maybe a inch wider. I found some 7 1/2 tall, how tall are the raptors
Well nice to see you stop back again, we won't tell the raptor guys, you never know king raptor may have you on the front page of the raptor gazzette
Thiers not a bunch of choices in atv handle bars, the 300EX dementions look the best, although I wanted a little more pulback with maybe a inch wider. I found some 7 1/2 tall, how tall are the raptors
Well nice to see you stop back again, we won't tell the raptor guys, you never know king raptor may have you on the front page of the raptor gazzette
#14
12-14-2001, 09:59 PM
Hay guys,
As promised I installed the dynojet needle with the #130 main.
I wasn't able to put it through the test I would like, but I will tomorrow.
Stebob, it's a go for sure with you, the throttle response is quite better, I also put my air/fuel mixture back to 2 1/2 turns, just to start over again.
I rode it around the yard, and it feels alot better, now better than the stock (spelled it rite) tommorrow will tell me.
In the yard it felt very good, responsive rite from idle, was able to ride wheelies all the way through second gear effortlessly.
I would say so far all the guys with the mods need to go down to a #130 main and all the others down to the #126.
Like stebob staited, he thought he would get more power with the bigger jets, this is not true you actually hurt the power with the larger jets.
As for plug read stebob, the plug looks graet, much better than before.
Well talk to you all after tomorrows ride.
As promised I installed the dynojet needle with the #130 main.
I wasn't able to put it through the test I would like, but I will tomorrow.
Stebob, it's a go for sure with you, the throttle response is quite better, I also put my air/fuel mixture back to 2 1/2 turns, just to start over again.
I rode it around the yard, and it feels alot better, now better than the stock (spelled it rite) tommorrow will tell me.
In the yard it felt very good, responsive rite from idle, was able to ride wheelies all the way through second gear effortlessly.
I would say so far all the guys with the mods need to go down to a #130 main and all the others down to the #126.
Like stebob staited, he thought he would get more power with the bigger jets, this is not true you actually hurt the power with the larger jets.
As for plug read stebob, the plug looks graet, much better than before.
Well talk to you all after tomorrows ride.
#15
12-14-2001, 10:29 PM
Gaff- I havent had a chance to work on my lakota yet. As of right now it has no pipe at all on it. And i'm not sure which one to put back on because i don't want to ruin my motor.I'm going to mess around with it tomorrow if it isn't to cold.I got a question for anyone who may no the answer. If i don't turn the air fuel mixture screw does it hurt anything it's stock besides the supertrapp pipe and the airintake under the headlight i took the rubber cover of it. it backfires alot when i let of the throttle. If it's leaking around where the headerpipe conects to the motor will that make it run hotter.If it running lean will it run hot.
THANKS FOR HELP???
THANKS FOR HELP???
#16
12-15-2001, 05:58 PM
The answer to both your questions bigbad is yes.
Well I have returned from the track.
It has been raining here this past week so we gave up trail riding pretty quick.
So we went to the moto track, and what a physicly demanding track it was. wow!!!
The dynojet #130 main with the dynojet needle with the air/fuel mixture turned out 2 1/2 turns worked wonderfull, Just graet power from bottom to top through all the gears, the lakota ran awsome.
This track had no woops, but had everything else, it was a long track but only one spot were you could get in to forth and that was just for a second, then hit a jump brake hard down to second and into a turn.
I found no hesitations graet power off the turns through the stutter bumps, and if you got cought in the rong gear coming out the turns, thier was real good tourqe to pick the pase back up pretty quick.
Thier were a number of bikes and some quads thier, but no riders that realy could pick up the pace.
For my first hour my son on his XR-80 was probably quicker than any one, that included some CR's and KX's, but don't sell him short he's pretty damn quick.
I did get a race on with a 250Ex that seemed to be a compatent rider, don't know what mods he had, but realy the 250EX is no were close to the lakota, I know, I know I've read the magazine articles as well, but realy he was nothing but toast, thier also was a couple of blasters and warriors thier but I can't cont them due to they were so bad my son was lapping them on thier same lap.
The plug read on this set up was clean, the plug read on the stock needle appeared to be good, but had slight traces of black on it.
Another way we check richness is the inside of the exhaust tip, if you have black sooty type carbon thier some were your running rich, with the stock needle I still had a little soot, with the set up I have now it's completely clean with a little gray ash on your finger if you wipe it out.
It's bad that I had to go back to dynojet to see whats up, but at the same time it's good this happened as I finally feel closer on this subject.
With this good power it deffinately shows how slippery the tires are, I wiegh 230 and know how to shift my wieght but so many second and third gear exitings of turns were I just couldn't get the tires to hook up.
Well I have returned from the track.
It has been raining here this past week so we gave up trail riding pretty quick.
So we went to the moto track, and what a physicly demanding track it was. wow!!!
The dynojet #130 main with the dynojet needle with the air/fuel mixture turned out 2 1/2 turns worked wonderfull, Just graet power from bottom to top through all the gears, the lakota ran awsome.
This track had no woops, but had everything else, it was a long track but only one spot were you could get in to forth and that was just for a second, then hit a jump brake hard down to second and into a turn.
I found no hesitations graet power off the turns through the stutter bumps, and if you got cought in the rong gear coming out the turns, thier was real good tourqe to pick the pase back up pretty quick.
Thier were a number of bikes and some quads thier, but no riders that realy could pick up the pace.
For my first hour my son on his XR-80 was probably quicker than any one, that included some CR's and KX's, but don't sell him short he's pretty damn quick.
I did get a race on with a 250Ex that seemed to be a compatent rider, don't know what mods he had, but realy the 250EX is no were close to the lakota, I know, I know I've read the magazine articles as well, but realy he was nothing but toast, thier also was a couple of blasters and warriors thier but I can't cont them due to they were so bad my son was lapping them on thier same lap.
The plug read on this set up was clean, the plug read on the stock needle appeared to be good, but had slight traces of black on it.
Another way we check richness is the inside of the exhaust tip, if you have black sooty type carbon thier some were your running rich, with the stock needle I still had a little soot, with the set up I have now it's completely clean with a little gray ash on your finger if you wipe it out.
It's bad that I had to go back to dynojet to see whats up, but at the same time it's good this happened as I finally feel closer on this subject.
With this good power it deffinately shows how slippery the tires are, I wiegh 230 and know how to shift my wieght but so many second and third gear exitings of turns were I just couldn't get the tires to hook up.
#17
12-15-2001, 09:44 PM
What sprocket did you run? I think i got my Lakota fixed No leaks around the head pipe. I was riding it up the road to day and pulled a wheelie in third. What tires are you going to go with.I'm thinking about going with 20-11-10 Titan trailclaw2's i got fasttrakkers right now.I'm thinking of going with a 11 thooth front sprocket anyone have one. I do mostly trail riding. But i'm addicted to climbing hills. So i think the 11 in front will give me more lowend to get up those hills in 2nd gear with out having to shift the 1st. Thanks for all your help GAFF.
#19
12-16-2001, 09:11 AM
I have 12 disc.
I've been doing jetting on bikes for 20 years and a lot of them having CV carbs, being I mostly work on street and drag bikes.
I sat around last night slugging back some beers with some area machanics, and what we came up with is the carb must be a touch to small.
As you know a carb doesn't have a fuel pump but works off the scavaged air passing through the carb, wich the bowl has it's own orfice. When the pressure in the bowl is graeter than the venturi the pressure forces the fuel from the bowl up through it's apropriate circut.
What were thinking over here is that if you change a main and it affects the mid range, this must mean that the pressure is so graet that the main is coming in early.
What do you think?
I wouldn't say it needs bigger carb, the mojave has the 34 and I would believe if kawi didn't want it to be this way they could have slapped the 34 on it easaly.
As far as the lakota settings transferring over to a mojave, I believe the same principal will apply , but the mo I believe comes with different jet sizes.
I've been doing jetting on bikes for 20 years and a lot of them having CV carbs, being I mostly work on street and drag bikes.
I sat around last night slugging back some beers with some area machanics, and what we came up with is the carb must be a touch to small.
As you know a carb doesn't have a fuel pump but works off the scavaged air passing through the carb, wich the bowl has it's own orfice. When the pressure in the bowl is graeter than the venturi the pressure forces the fuel from the bowl up through it's apropriate circut.
What were thinking over here is that if you change a main and it affects the mid range, this must mean that the pressure is so graet that the main is coming in early.
What do you think?
I wouldn't say it needs bigger carb, the mojave has the 34 and I would believe if kawi didn't want it to be this way they could have slapped the 34 on it easaly.
As far as the lakota settings transferring over to a mojave, I believe the same principal will apply , but the mo I believe comes with different jet sizes.
#20
12-16-2001, 10:43 PM
I'm not sure what to think anymore. Mine ran very strong stock. Then I started messing with it. I Changed too many things at once. Now I'm just trying to get back to a baseline to tweak.
The funny thing is, the mods I made initially were opening up air and exhaust(K&N, DG w/out arrestor, opening snorkel) without messing with the stock jets. I lost power high and low and ran so rich I couldn't get 4 runs on a spark plug (thick black)and exhaust was dark. The dynojet kit recomends the 134 but my stock 132 was already too rich. I ditched the DG for a White Bros and am in the process of trying out a 130 and the dynojet needle. If this works I'll be amazed. How can you open air only and get too rich?
The funny thing is, the mods I made initially were opening up air and exhaust(K&N, DG w/out arrestor, opening snorkel) without messing with the stock jets. I lost power high and low and ran so rich I couldn't get 4 runs on a spark plug (thick black)and exhaust was dark. The dynojet kit recomends the 134 but my stock 132 was already too rich. I ditched the DG for a White Bros and am in the process of trying out a 130 and the dynojet needle. If this works I'll be amazed. How can you open air only and get too rich?