Hurry up and get your Cannibal
Sep 24, 2002 | 01:48 AM
#12
Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 645
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It takes around $1000-1200 in engine mods for the 400EX to be made to keep up with a stock Cannibal - and that's if you do all the engine work yourself - at this level of modification, the engine is still reliable.
I own both & have drag raced them both on asphalt at a 1/4 mile drag strip several times. My 400 is within a a .1/sec or so in the 1/4 of my Cannondale, but weighs more due to the XC setup.
Even with the mods to make the 400 keep up, the Cannondale is still more responsive, "feels" more powerful, and puts a bigger smile on your face when you crack open the throttle. The power the two machines develop is 100% different. The 400EX is a tractor & is a brute down low and in the mid, the CD loves the RPMs.
Captain Morgan - "They can be made to be just as competitive."
Sure they can - so could a TRX90 if you throw enough money at it....
Both machines are good - out of the box, the Cannondale's better, for the up front money, the Cannondale's a better value for what you get. Capt'n Morgan needs to grow up a tad.
I own both & have drag raced them both on asphalt at a 1/4 mile drag strip several times. My 400 is within a a .1/sec or so in the 1/4 of my Cannondale, but weighs more due to the XC setup.
Even with the mods to make the 400 keep up, the Cannondale is still more responsive, "feels" more powerful, and puts a bigger smile on your face when you crack open the throttle. The power the two machines develop is 100% different. The 400EX is a tractor & is a brute down low and in the mid, the CD loves the RPMs.
Captain Morgan - "They can be made to be just as competitive."
Sure they can - so could a TRX90 if you throw enough money at it....
Both machines are good - out of the box, the Cannondale's better, for the up front money, the Cannondale's a better value for what you get. Capt'n Morgan needs to grow up a tad.
Sep 24, 2002 | 02:04 AM
#13
Range Rover
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Grow up??
You only confirmed what I said. For $1200,I can have Cannondale power. That puts it the same price as a Cannibal if I am not mistaken. BUT I also get the Honda handling and the potential for more power which the Cannondales are not capable of producing.
Waxing? Everyone shall soon see. We are racing that Arenacross race you guys were talking about a few weeks ago and we will find out just how close we are. I will be on a Purple 400EX with Chem-R logos and Cody will be riding a yellow 400EX. James is still undecided right now, but if he races, it will be on his 250R that we have won everything with for the last two years.
See you guys there.
You only confirmed what I said. For $1200,I can have Cannondale power. That puts it the same price as a Cannibal if I am not mistaken. BUT I also get the Honda handling and the potential for more power which the Cannondales are not capable of producing.
Waxing? Everyone shall soon see. We are racing that Arenacross race you guys were talking about a few weeks ago and we will find out just how close we are. I will be on a Purple 400EX with Chem-R logos and Cody will be riding a yellow 400EX. James is still undecided right now, but if he races, it will be on his 250R that we have won everything with for the last two years.
See you guys there.
Sep 24, 2002 | 02:47 AM
#14
Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
I suppose your time is worth nothing.
You mis-read what I said. For $1200, some knowledge on building an engine with components that compliment each other, and all your own labor you can have a 400EX that should ***keep up*** with a Cannibal in a drag race. You ***WILL NOT*** have "Cannondale power" & you will have to deal with a few of the idiosyncrasies of a modified engine.
There is much more to power than what is shown in a simple drag race.
Comprende?
The Cannondale is not capable of producing more power???
Try putting on a pipe - and your $1200 modded 400EX just got left behind (we've also got a piped Cannondale with team cannondale mapping & it will "wax" my modified 400 as well as my stock Cannibal).
You're very naive if you don't believe there's more power lurking in the CD's engine. There's always power to be found from a production engine. Heck, I'd venture to say, with the proper tools (wideband O2 or Gas analyzer & dyno) there's quite a bit more power to be had with simply tuning on the EFI & 3D timing maps.
You'll find that there is a barrier in the low 40RWHP range that's very difficult to overcome with a 400EX engine, reliability suffers fast at that point as well.
A 400EX is still heavier - I know, the specs show the difference to be minor, but lift both into the truck, then try to tell me the 400EX weighs the same....
With the CD you get better suspension. If you're lucky you get Ohlins all the way around - not the best, but FAR better than the junk that comes on the 400 from the box. If you're not lucky, you still get better shocks than what the 400EX comes with, especially on the rear.
You get a much stronger & stiffer frame than a 400EX. Just see low long the frame & swingarm last on your MX 400EX if you haven't already disassembled, gussetted, and replaced the swingarm - been there, broke that.
If you're half as good as you claim to be, you've found this out a very long time ago.
You get less scrub on the front end than the 400EX has due to the design of the spindles - 1/2" less to be more precise - control arms are also 1/2 inch longer to equal the width of the 400EX. You also get more frame rake. You get 1/2" longer swingarm that's FAR stronger than the 400EX piece. The Cannondale's ball joints also offer much less steering resistance & give it a very light feel.
Stainless brake lines & a parking brake that actually works, as well as better rotors and calipers.
Lightweight aluminum rear sprocket.
Seperate engine and tranny oils. 10 plate clutch. (guess what you'll be doing soon if you are developing much power out of your 400EX).
Stainless steel reusable oil filter.
Hydraulic clutch.
Lower CG (fuel tank, battery, radiator, all down low)
etc, etc, etc.
Don't get me wrong - I still ride, race, love my 400EX, and am a Honda fan from way back, however, I'm also smart enough to know the differences in the two machines - especially stock for stock. The only reason my 400EX is still being raced is because I have well over $10,000 invested, and yes, it is competitive & I am very comfortable on it...
My Cannondale is stock & most of the time when I'm riding recreationally & given the choice, I'm on it, not the 400 - figure that one out Capt'n...
Add up the numbers, as I count it, not even counting labor, you've spent a whole lot more than the difference in price in the two quads to equal them up.
You mis-read what I said. For $1200, some knowledge on building an engine with components that compliment each other, and all your own labor you can have a 400EX that should ***keep up*** with a Cannibal in a drag race. You ***WILL NOT*** have "Cannondale power" & you will have to deal with a few of the idiosyncrasies of a modified engine.
There is much more to power than what is shown in a simple drag race.
Comprende?
The Cannondale is not capable of producing more power???
Try putting on a pipe - and your $1200 modded 400EX just got left behind (we've also got a piped Cannondale with team cannondale mapping & it will "wax" my modified 400 as well as my stock Cannibal).
You're very naive if you don't believe there's more power lurking in the CD's engine. There's always power to be found from a production engine. Heck, I'd venture to say, with the proper tools (wideband O2 or Gas analyzer & dyno) there's quite a bit more power to be had with simply tuning on the EFI & 3D timing maps.
You'll find that there is a barrier in the low 40RWHP range that's very difficult to overcome with a 400EX engine, reliability suffers fast at that point as well.
A 400EX is still heavier - I know, the specs show the difference to be minor, but lift both into the truck, then try to tell me the 400EX weighs the same....
With the CD you get better suspension. If you're lucky you get Ohlins all the way around - not the best, but FAR better than the junk that comes on the 400 from the box. If you're not lucky, you still get better shocks than what the 400EX comes with, especially on the rear.
You get a much stronger & stiffer frame than a 400EX. Just see low long the frame & swingarm last on your MX 400EX if you haven't already disassembled, gussetted, and replaced the swingarm - been there, broke that.
If you're half as good as you claim to be, you've found this out a very long time ago.
You get less scrub on the front end than the 400EX has due to the design of the spindles - 1/2" less to be more precise - control arms are also 1/2 inch longer to equal the width of the 400EX. You also get more frame rake. You get 1/2" longer swingarm that's FAR stronger than the 400EX piece. The Cannondale's ball joints also offer much less steering resistance & give it a very light feel.
Stainless brake lines & a parking brake that actually works, as well as better rotors and calipers.
Lightweight aluminum rear sprocket.
Seperate engine and tranny oils. 10 plate clutch. (guess what you'll be doing soon if you are developing much power out of your 400EX).
Stainless steel reusable oil filter.
Hydraulic clutch.
Lower CG (fuel tank, battery, radiator, all down low)
etc, etc, etc.
Don't get me wrong - I still ride, race, love my 400EX, and am a Honda fan from way back, however, I'm also smart enough to know the differences in the two machines - especially stock for stock. The only reason my 400EX is still being raced is because I have well over $10,000 invested, and yes, it is competitive & I am very comfortable on it...
My Cannondale is stock & most of the time when I'm riding recreationally & given the choice, I'm on it, not the 400 - figure that one out Capt'n...
Add up the numbers, as I count it, not even counting labor, you've spent a whole lot more than the difference in price in the two quads to equal them up.
Sep 24, 2002 | 11:03 AM
#16
Pro Rider
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
Capt,
You sure you didn't run the Titanic into the ice.
<<BUT I also get the Honda handling and the potential for more power which the Cannondales are not capable of producing.>>
I just had my head Ported and Polished by Trinity. That good for a couple. Trinity also had a 93mm bore sleeve that was going to go into my quad. I got tired of waiting for the piston from JE. So there are larger bores avalible.
Knowsalot only played with the fuel injection and was swapping wins with a highly modded 250R big bore. So a mapping is pretty much FREE HP.
I talked to Sparks, Trinity, Poweroll, and most of the other knowledgeable builders, I couldn't find your phone number so we didn't talk, about building my 400EX.
I traded it for a Speed with lots more potential, better parts on and on.
You kill me though. Everytime I miss corndog, you post something ignorant.
Smitty
You sure you didn't run the Titanic into the ice.
<<BUT I also get the Honda handling and the potential for more power which the Cannondales are not capable of producing.>>
I just had my head Ported and Polished by Trinity. That good for a couple. Trinity also had a 93mm bore sleeve that was going to go into my quad. I got tired of waiting for the piston from JE. So there are larger bores avalible.
Knowsalot only played with the fuel injection and was swapping wins with a highly modded 250R big bore. So a mapping is pretty much FREE HP.
I talked to Sparks, Trinity, Poweroll, and most of the other knowledgeable builders, I couldn't find your phone number so we didn't talk, about building my 400EX.
I traded it for a Speed with lots more potential, better parts on and on.
You kill me though. Everytime I miss corndog, you post something ignorant.
Smitty
Sep 24, 2002 | 01:23 PM
#18
Pro Rider
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
all i can do is give you facts. we went to monster mountain for their labor day race. ( the caps home track ) my 14 year old son only on his second race on his moto WAXED the local boys. now i hate to say it that way because most of them were pretty nice guys but truth is truth. josh ran first both motos and fuller who rides a highly moded 400 ex ran second. the rest of the pack crossed the finish line a third of a lap behind josh and fuller. if you havent seen his name on the forum, fuller is one of our local riders here and a friend of ours. we will be back at the monster on oct 27 for round 2 of the 4 race series. we have never ran an arena cross race but it keeps getting more tempting. i dont know why the cap keeps putting the pro class monster mountain thing in his signature. i have already proved with a copy of the e-mail i received from the owner of monster mountain that there is NO pro quad class at monster mountain.
now Cap
whereever we go we go to race. we already been to the monster and you did not show.
we invited you to our all quad blowout at fernwood mississippi mx..you did not show
we will be at monster mountain on oct. 27th to race
we will also have another all quad blowout at fernwood on oct. 12
if your quads are not ready by then there will be another blowout on the second saturday of november
so i have given you many options to prove you can wax us
i unlike you will not make a statement like that, we come to race, win, lose or draw
but i will tell you this dont misjudge the skinny dark haired kid that rides the cannondale moto # 11 because if hes not leading the pack he will be breathing down your neck waiting for that one mistake.
Knowsalot
i know you are keeping up with this thread. can you post all the info on the arena cross race in starksville. i know you already done it once but do it again so we all know. it will be our first arena cross race if we can make it so please give all details expecially practice times. thanks
now Cap
whereever we go we go to race. we already been to the monster and you did not show.
we invited you to our all quad blowout at fernwood mississippi mx..you did not show
we will be at monster mountain on oct. 27th to race
we will also have another all quad blowout at fernwood on oct. 12
if your quads are not ready by then there will be another blowout on the second saturday of november
so i have given you many options to prove you can wax us
i unlike you will not make a statement like that, we come to race, win, lose or draw
but i will tell you this dont misjudge the skinny dark haired kid that rides the cannondale moto # 11 because if hes not leading the pack he will be breathing down your neck waiting for that one mistake.
Knowsalot
i know you are keeping up with this thread. can you post all the info on the arena cross race in starksville. i know you already done it once but do it again so we all know. it will be our first arena cross race if we can make it so please give all details expecially practice times. thanks
