Because I, unlike them, was not bigoted about it. I accepted that, saw them as a good organization, and volunteered to help it out. Religion did not play in to my decision. They are the ones that decided that religious bigotry was the way to go, not me.

 

I know it sounds like I am arguing - and I'm not trying to. I respect that you feel slighted (or maybe you don't care) by the Scouts. But I don't see that as bigotry - they stand for what they believe in and in their minds the leaders they have should (must) have faith in their beliefs to do the job the way they prefer it to be done.

Thats what I am talking about - if an organization excludes someone because they aren't inline with what their core beliefs are all of a sudden they become religious bigots? I see it as protecting their institution from changing into something that it wasn't originally chartered to be - a organization not grounded in religious beliefs. Religious belief is like 50% of what the Boy Scouts are about.

Look all I'm saying is I wouldn't join an Atheist group and then complain because they won't let me hold a prayer before each session.

You know what its about before you entered it - it didn't work out because its rooted in a christian belief system and your atheist. You didn't fit what they were trying to teach (whether right or wrong) so thats their feeling and right to not have you teach. They are a private organization and as such can set their rules and regulations as they see fit.

You know the funny thing about this is that - a) I am in no way affiliated with the boy scouts and b) while not a full fledge atheist over the past few years I have come to really question religion in general. How could humans who back in the dark ages had everything about the world totally wrong - all of a sudden be right about a divine being. Especially when all scientific evidence says that we evolved from apes. But thats another thread I think.

I think the Boy Scout position statement says it all in terms of what they espouse - they don't deny others their opinion or diversity - they just don't feel it fits into their model of what they want to teach children in the boy scouts:

BOY SCOUT POSITION STATEMENT:

More than 90 years ago, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) was founded on the premise of teaching boys moral and ethical values through an outdoor program that challenges them and teaches them respect for nature, one another, and themselves. Scouting has always represented the best in community, leadership, and service.

The Boy Scouts of America has selected its leaders using the highest standards because strong leaders and positive role models are so important to the healthy development of youth. Today, the organization still stands firm that their leaders exemplify the values outlined in the Scout Oath and Law.

On June 28, 2000, the United States Supreme Court reaffirmed the Boy Scouts of America's standing as a private organization with the right to set its own membership and leadership standards.

The BSA respects the rights of people and groups who hold values that differ from those encompassed in the Scout Oath and Law, and the BSA makes no effort to deny the rights of those whose views differ to hold their attitudes or opinions.

Scouts come from all walks of life and are exposed to diversity in Scouting that they may not otherwise experience. The Boy Scouts of America aims to allow youth to live and learn as children and enjoy Scouting without immersing them in the politics of the day.

We hope that our supporters will continue to value the Boy Scouts of America's respect for diversity and the positive impact Scouting has on young people's lives. We realize that not every individual nor organization subscribes to the same beliefs that the BSA does, but we hope that all Americans can be as respectful of our beliefs as we are of theirs and support the overall good Scouting does in American communities.





Text

 

Tdelong, you're right on about the Boy Scout issue. A Private Org. has the right to determine who should be in their group. Good analogy about joining an athiest group and being denied the right to hold a prayer. The way this country is going just really irks me. And don't even get me started on the ACLU.........[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

 

Their decision cost them more than anything. Witht he loss of mee, the local troop could not keep going with the one other person left, so they disbanded.

It wasn't that we did not work out... we got along just fine. It was the sudden and unprovoked need of theirs to oust me and any like me that caused problems. Look at how many Eagles resigned/refused their Eagle after the ruling even though they were not themselves disqualified under the ruling.
An organization is the sum of the whole, and not the whim of a bunch of old farts that don't like anything different than them. They have, because of that decision, lost TONS of funding, support, and even the United Way, their main monetary source, has left it up to local chapters to deny or provide funding at their descretion. Many have denied funding, and the local branch had to cease operations due to lack of funding.

They are killing themselves due to their choice to discriminate on issues that are non-issues to their stance and mission. Boys are without something wholesome to occupy their time in many locations.
The only bright spot is those old farts will all die soon, and sane people have a chance of returning them to a good and open organization.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: HELLHOUND
this really has nothing to do with atv issues but

I like big cars, big atvs , big boats, big motorcycles, big houses and big campfires.


You're UNAMERICAN!!! What about BIG BREASTS?!?!?!?!? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

 

The bottom line is if you are an athiest or g@y, don't join an orginization of which the belief in God is a central part. I would bet my life that if there was an athiest or g@y scout group, you wouldn't have a Christian complaining that he couldn't join.

 

Now I'll argue on that. The boy scouts knew exactly how it would affect things in the long run. Again, it is a choice that they made (knowing the full ramifications of what it would bring about). It is their choice to do so - completely - 100% - regardless of what you think about the matter. You could have started your own group that provided wholesome things for kids to do - why didn't you? Open a rec center if there are enough people disgruntled by the boy scouts ruling. Bottom line is don't bitch about something just because it wasn't "open" to YOUR way of beliefs and thinking.

The fact that people resigned/refused to continue is a non-event as again they should have known what the organization was all about BEFORE they chose to become so engrained in it. I just wish we'd stop with this I'm the minority victim of this world and because this big organization isn't tolerant of my (non-mainstream) view that runs completely opposite of the big organizations entire charter I'm going to make a stink about it cause my rights are violated - blah blah blah.

Its ridiculous - when did tolerant mean acceptance of everything? I tolerate that people drive like idiots on the freeways. I tolerate that it takes me 2 hours to get through the DMV line. I shouldn't have to tolerate someone who wants to change something that has stood the test of time and has worked just fine up until the liberal tree hugging left decided that we can't say "discriminate" against certain beliefs and behaviors and that ALL opinions from ALL minority groups have to be taken into consideration.

Thats crazy and thats why I vote Republican.

You want to be an Atheist - cool. You want to be g@y - cool. But - and this is a big one to comprehend. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean that everyone else who might disagree with that has to be labeled bigots and racists, etc. Further more it doesn't give them the rights to FORCE what they believe and feel into the main stream public just because they want to feel accepted and validated by the main stream.

Personally, I want some mild religion in the school (like the pledge of alleg, etc) - do I want sermons? No. Would I mind if the 10 commandments were taught from a value and moral standpoint...hell no. Do I want "g@y" students to have groups and privelidges - No - and neither do 80% of the other parents. Do I hate g@ys - no - other than they try to force me unwillingly to accept their lifestyle as normal when I don't feel that it is. I don't care what someone does in their own life - hell my neighbors are g@y, and they are nice people.

Its a personal thing...You know - I like to have sex with 2 women at once - should we have a group with rights for people or students who like to gang bang? You know we really shouldn't discriminate against them there is nothing wrong with it and if you haven't done it I highly recommend you do before you leave this earth - I hear its something thats passed down through genes.

Or what about NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association)? Or Poligamy? Whats wrong with those things? They are people too, they should have rights...they just want to be accepted and not oppressed for their beliefs.

OK do you see where I am going with this and granted its taking some things to the extreme (there was a good South Park episode about being TOO tolerant I wish I could show everyone) Funny that I would use South Park as a teaching tool [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. But who would have ever thought back in the 50's that we'd have g@y and lesbi@n student associations in school the openly lobby to change the curriculum to accept that lifestyle as main stream and teach it as a subject?

Cheapass - I do see your point and I do think it is a sad thing when a group pushed someone out (especially in your case as you sound like you really had a passion for it as did the kids) but thats THEIR belief and they have just as much right to it as you do to yours.

 

I have read that quote before, and I do believe its Ted Nugent.
That is a good American...

 

I never said they didn't have that right. I stated the cost that decision had to them, and moreso to the kids in the area.
Most of the boys went on with their lives. SOme became homebodys, some joined a sport. My son got a dirt bike and took up Dad's hobby. but all were hurt because of that decision, one that had no point or need. Based entirely upon religious bigotry.

And before anyone goes off half cocked, look up the word. It most certainly applies. Common useage has made the word a loaded one, and thus dilluting it's legitimate useage.

 

Doesn't the freedom of America create it's own unique problems? People from other countries wish they had our problems, I'm sure. I'm just glad we're still free to chose just what orginization we want to belong to.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]