Recently I have been checking out the low priced Chinese ATVs. I noticed that their manuals stated they have spark arresters, but then I find out they are not USFS approved. All the other ATV manufactures produce an USFS approved spark arrester. I just think they should not sell them in the U.S. without warning the consumers that their spark arresters are not approved in the U.S.

 

Well that is the difference between paying for an A grade machine, and going with a lesser manufacturer. In fact, there are a lot of things that you don't get with the Chinese models when compared feature for feature. One very important distinction I always make is that the dealers selling them, and the manufacturers making them, have a very different outlook towards the sport in general, than say the big 5.
One thing is they do NOT subscribe to is the CPSC safety Guidelines. Now I know they are no longer laws, but the majority of states have adopted them in one form or another.
Secondly, they do not contribute to any lobby efforts, training programs or support positive initiatives that sell our sport as something that families can enjoy together. ALL they are about is putting product on every street corner, and making a buck or two off unsuspecting novices, parents included.
People think that they are gettting a fantastic "Deal", when in fact the actual costs come after the sale in maintenance costs etc..
I personally believe this attitude has contributed to the increased injury statistics that have plagued us over the past few years too. For some, cost is king. For others... well let's just say those of us who went the other route think we get a value even though we may have paid a little more in support of those makers that put something back into the sport.
You just have to play at what ever level you feel comfortable with.... and accept the fact that people have different needs.

 

And on the FLIP side of this, I think it is absolutely insane to go out and purchase an 8 yr old kid a 2700 dollar TRX 90 just because it says HONDA on it. I have used MANY off brand ATVs in my safety classes and not only have they proved to be dependable, they were very affordable with far more safety features than any brand name ATVs come from the factory with.

Im not suggesting that anybody abolish the major brand youth ATVs,but if you are somewhat mechanically inclined,there are some very good off brand ATV choices out there for your kids,and at a FRACTION of the cost of the major brand players.Young kids do not ride their ATVs nearly as hard as the adults do, with that said, there is only SO MUCH trouble one of these Chinese ATVs should give you IF you set it up correctly.

Bill

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: Dragginbutt

One thing is they do NOT subscribe to is the CPSC safety Guidelines. `




Does that mean we may see a two stroke reborn( 250r, blaster, banshee) if so yippy for Chinese quads [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]...if not so sad [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

I looked at the CPSC ATV safety Guidelines, if I'm correct, they seem to address operator safety (driving), but not equipment standards. Except keeping under 16 years old off full size ATVs. I wonder if SVIA & ASI could set U.S. industry safety standards?

 

SVIA and ASI is run by the MAJOR ATV manufactures and they by themselves cannot set forth mandidtory Federal guidlines for age/cc recommendations. These guidlines are redicules in most cases and actually impede training for our youth instead of allowing them to receive training on an ATV that actually fits them.I do not support the SVIA-ASI recomended age/cc ATV size for our youth and im a certified/licensed ATV safety instructor.

Bill

 

Let's analyze what I said. I said the CPSC guidelines have been used as a model for many state programs... I didn't say word for word... but they were used as starting points because there wasn't anything else available at the time, nor was there a professional organization available they could go to other than ASI. a the time of their drafting .
I did not say they are perfect... but that they exist. States, can once they embrace them make them law. And enforce them. Last count, they are in the majority now.
ASI IS supported by dollars from major manufacturers. I did not deny that. I happen to feel that any involvement by a manufacturer that promotes safe and responsible riding is a VERY POSITIVE thing. It shows committment other than just taking your dollars and leaving you high and dry.

Now you might not think so.. OK. Chances are you have a little more knowledge about ATVs and their dangers than the novice mom or dad who sees a nice shiny new Cheap POS sitting on a street corner or some guy selling them out of the back of a pick-up truck and checks the prices and thinks, gee, this is a steal. No thought is given to training, proper sizing, parts availabilty etc at that moment. All they think about is cheap price. They get home, gas her up light it off and turn their kid loose. Probably without a helmet, no gloves, eye protection etc... and chances are the kid is in shorts, a t-shirt and tennis shoes etc. They give mom or dad a big hug hit the gas and off they go. Mom and dad feel great becasue they got that hug... sad thing is, it might be the last time they get to hug their child.. because Johnny goes right out and flips the thing or rides it into a tree. Think it doesn't happen? Don't fool yourself. It happens more than you think.
Now the real entity that missed the boat here has to be the factory who refused to spend the 1/3 of a cent to put a warning sticker on the machine. Or the buck it might cost them to print a manual regarding riding techniques, or dangers. No, don't defend them... God knows there are too many kids in pine boxes, or with broken bodies to allow them to continue to get away with this....
I don't like the guidelines either... but once you look at the reason why they were drafted, AND study the accident statistics that were the impetus, then you can debate the issue.
If you really want to do something about it, then join me and get vocal about the need for changes. Sure MI has a different view on how you determine the proper size machine for each rider based on size/weight and skills demonstration. A very forward thinking program run by a state that understands what it is dealing with. Not the same in most states however. Get out there and help the novices and educate their Parents. THAT is where the focus should be. Provide a source of information so they can make good decisions... not ones based on cheap price alone.
DO the big boys cost more? Sure they do. They have to support that parts inventory you see, the safety gear that sits on the shelves, the sponsorship $ that they spend supporting ATV events all over the country.. and yes even the safety training programs run by ASI. Like it or not, I'd rather the kids had professional training, even poor versions versus having Bubba next door do it, or leaving it up to mom and dads. The kids deserve it.

 

Muddy man, you know my feelings about kids, and training... and the CPSC guidelines. You know I fully support the forward thinking programs in Michegan too. But because we are talking state authority here, not Federal, we will never see a national standard. Like it or not, even though every informed individual on the planet is crying for ONE standard that is enforcable and fair to all, it is impossible to think it will ever happen. Our system of laws and government just doesn't work that way. The closest thing we will ever get to it is something like the CPSC guidelines. Understand this, you won't ever put a document together that pleases everyone. There will always be critics.. God knows you and I both have seen a few these past couple of years. I think 4 years ago, I probably was the most vocal one out there... you know that. But I took the time to dig for the information, and what I found was I was not exaclty on the money so to speak. Thank God my children have survived my attitudes, rants and bad decisions...

I have been kicking an idea around about writing a guide for the novice parent and making it available to sites like this. I even suggested letting me and others like yourself moderate a seperate section that deals with making knowlege known and providing information sources for parents so they can educate themselves, ask questions etc.. but that suggestion fell on deaf ears. Not only on this site, but other well known ones as well. DO YOU HEAR THAT MODS? Sure would be a way to build membership by being the "FOCAL" point rather than the "VOCAL" point in this discussion....

My focus on this list has been education.. education.. and more education. Not only to teach techniques to novice riders, but to educate them in envirinmental issues as well (Did you ever think you would hear me say that? It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth) I feel even more important than teaching a child is educating the decision makers, not only in dangers etc, but how to mitigate them, how to judge the child's physical and mental abilities that go way beyond being able to hang on and hit the gas etc. Most parents just plain don't know, and when the light bulb finally does go on, they don't know where to go to get the knowlede either. A vicious circle.. But you understand I hope.. We need to make sure the ATV experience is a good one. Not a source of great pain and suffering. I know you are doing that up there.... and welcome back from purgatory...

 

Dragginbutt... I have taken the riders safty course and am trying to teach my 11yr old sister how to position herself on the quad in turns/hills ect...she also has a new helmet...the sad thing is that she is on a quad that is rated for 12yrs and older...how is she supposed to take a safty training course? I will be selling that quad for an upgrade the way things are going...

On another note ...I also have a 15yr old sister that will be driving a car soon and hope to god she can drive that better than the quad.....I will try to give her some instruction as well.....

Do you have any tips for me?

 

Education IS key here. Not only education for our YOUTH, but making SURE that a responsable adult in the students life, actually sits thru the SAME safety class with their children. A well informed parent will almost allways make for a well trained youth.

Here in Michigan, the DNR have been given the responsabilty to impliment the ORV safety program for our youth. What a mistake! When the DNR took the safety program over in October of 2003, they went ahead and hired 309 Law Enforcement Officers and told them to go instruct the ORV safety class with little/no training to do so. So now what we have is 30.00 safety classes being taught by untrained/unqualified instructors in a 2-3 hr period with no HANDS ON training. What a WASTE of our ORV dollars,but it sure makes the DNR look good to the politicians that are looking at the NUMBER of kids trained the WRONG way,VS the correct way with HANDS ON training by a REAL qualified instructor.

Im fighting to get the mandidtory HANDS ON training BACK into the ORV safety program and to re-establish that these police officers ALL be trained the CORRECT way to instruct these classes. Im ashamed to say that except for a few privately owned/ran ORV safety organizations here in Michigan, our safety classes are a joke.