I rode motorcycles, 4 wheelers, snow mobiles, tractors and garden lawn mowers. Worked on them all!
I can not whine or take sides for any one particular group.
All can get along like the old cattle and sheep herders did when the war between these two was at its height. Some fellow figured a solution for this since the sheep graze all the way to the root. First send the cattle to graze and move on, then went the sheep to graze following the cattle. Not placing a facsimile on who is who, just relating which is hardest on a trail, or grazing area.

Idealistic as it may seem, I mean really idealistic, what is needed is a multi lane pathway and the respect for the reason for it and apply the golden rule, of golf.
Make a debut your responsible to fill it back in.
Who is going to stop and take out a snow shovel and fill it back with fresh snow? 
Signage on the path designating what to watch for or designating which side each different machine needs to be on.
Since the days of old have passed and there is more population on both machines rules have to be made and obeyed. Both can still have the same privileges on the same path just have to decide how this is to be accomplished.

When random riding one should know their path, hitting a dirt grove on a snow mobile is not a blessing it is a curse, also puts a ware on the blade guides. The machine did not make the grove; it is the person that is riding it. Usually if the grove was made the next would follow it.

Human nature and respect, does not come freely, or given wisely.
Trail riding, 60 mile an hour is a common and natural speed for a snow mobile. 30 to 40 is common and natural for a vehicle with wheels.
It is natural for a person that rides them all to see how fast the machine can do! It is in our blood. When entering a turn and you do not know what is on the other side the rule is to slow to a safer speed. But we all would like to test that side slide into a turn just for the rush and the exhilarating feel to power slide out of a turn.

Instead of expending our energy bickering, we all should expend our energy pool ideas so all sports can be enjoyed in time.

 

It looks like attitudes are shaped on this issue by where you are coming from. In snowbelt states, the trail systems were largely developed and built by snowmobilers. They are bound to see things differently than the ATVers who showed up later to enjoy those trails. However, I suspect that most snowmobilers, like myself, now ride ATVs most of the year. Actually, my club is an ATV/Snowmobile organization. We'd like to be able to enjoy both types of machines. While snowmobiles don't affect ATV use of tails, ATVs unfortunately can ruin trails for snowmobiles. I don't think it is "whining" to point that out.

 

Where I live there are a lot of Sled-Heads who hate ATVers........

But I've had a lot of them say "don't worry, you are OK because you ride a sport machine"....... They don't often see a 2wd quad out there and when they do they often have skies up front and don't destroy the trails.

It's the 4x4's they hate for churning up the trails. I don't ride Sleds, don't really like them much. But I won't go out on trails in the snow that I know the Sleds use. I don't want to mess of their riding experience because to them and ATV is just in the way. They are too slow, and they destroy the trails. Considering that they might only get nice trails once or twice a year we should give them some respect and let them have their space.

I know my Father had to ban some of this neighbors from riding their big UTES on his trails they they are muddy. Last spring a whole crew of them went out and just destroyed the trails for us 2wd guys. They rutted the hills so bad that none of the 2wd guys could get up them, so I can understand how the Sledders feel when the trails are wrecked.

And last summer after some heavy rains two morons trespassed onto our MX track with 4x4s and totally messed up the track. We spent a week fixing all the jumps and rebuilding the whoops. Of course that was a private land issue. The two riders said they were sorry and didn't see the posted signs. They claimed they thought they were still on the property next to ours where they had permission to ride. An honest enough mistake I suppose, and we were more pissed they screwed up the track than the fact that they were on it in the first place.....

 

Yep that is what is happening there are a few that mess things up even if they did not see the signs they still trashed a known track, undeniable to say they did not know it was a track, just by looking at it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
That is human nature, sometimes you have people that are responsable and some that fling it at the moment of excitement without thinking of the next guy.
Unconditional riding is becoming the thing of the past.
There is a time and place to do the who-ra-ing and there is most of the time where being courtious is the key!

I see your point and it is a very valid point to boot!
How can this message get thru to the untamed character.
If there is a solution it would be the solution for all man kind, and in every issue we face everyday!

4 wheeling is just going to grow logarithmically.
Multiply the number of ATVs being sold each year which I think it is 3% of the previous year and so on and so forth.
Out of that let us assume Instead of 2 you may have 4 then 16 then 64, 128, 256, etc., etc., etc?
Now regulations are needed to harness the untamed.
Anytime regulations are set in stone who is the first to complain, the ones that loved riding unconditionally. Let?s face it when I mount a bike and get the feel of it?s handling,
I just want to pull a donut or two pop wheelies, but the one difference from when I was 16, I find a hidden spot where it is out of the way of everyone.
I was showing off back in those days now it would be a thrill that brings me back to when I was impressing the hot ladies, giving them something to talk about.
...

 

I also belong to an ATV/Snowmobile club here in MI., because a good portion of the trails in our county are open to ATV's and Snowmobiles. The issue of ATV's vs Snowmobiles on the duel purpose trails has become such a proble here in MI, that certain Townships and Counties have passed laws banning ORV's on the tails from Dec. 1 - May 1. Once again instead of working together to increase use for everyone, groups automatically take sides on who has rights to the trails.
The main area of complaint from sledders is that ORV's only pay $16.25 for a trail sticker and can ride all year. Sleds on the other hand need to buy Registration stickers from the state that cost $22 for three years, plus $25 every Dec. 1 for a trail sticker to ride on the same trails. This additional $25 sticker is supposed to be used to groom and maintain the snowmobile trails in the winter. So after paying to ride on smooth trails, sledders get made when they have to ride on torn up trails.
To save all the fighting this year I bought a (snow) trail sticker and put it on my ATV. When I stop for gas and a sledder gives me a hard time, I point to the trail sticker. Most still don't like it, but with the sticker I mention that I have just as much right to the trail as they do.

 

I hate to say it Deeplaker, but your profile speaks volumes:

"I hated ATV's, especially when they rutted up the trail where I liked to ride my mountain bike. When I'd see a hillside with ATV ruts along a highway, I'd stop my car and take a photo to add to a file I had intended to use to fight any expansion of ATV trails in my area."

I don't think anything else needs said.

 

I did not know there were still any shared ATV/Snowmobile trails in MI. IMO if there still are the snowmobile part should be closed to ORV's during winter months. I do not ride the ATV trails in winter when there is a lot of snow.



Why are ORVs not allowed to use snowmobile trails in the summer.


Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

In Norther lower MI there are still alot of trails that are ORV/Snowmobile trails. Of the 98 miles of snowmobile trails in our county, 41 miles are combination trails. I own 2 sleds and 3 ATV's and the key to making this work is for the operator to use good judgement befor going out on the trails. Example: it is supposed to reach 40 degrees on Saturday, so I would never take my ATV's out this weekend because I know the ATV would go right through the crust and tear things up. Last weekend however temps were in the 20's and the trails were hard packed and I didn't leave a mark with the quad. If we had got more than 1" of snow at a time I would have road my sled alot more this winter, but low snow amounts and warm temps have made things better for ATVing.

 

I had a close call on a trail ,a snowmobile and my swap-buggy in fl:

 

Hey 800twinEFI--are you some sort of politician? You seem to be the way you quote people out of context