my post was for the educated reader like you Jim! Hey, it's late, I have a house to haunt...

 

First, this is an excellent forum due to moderator "censorship". This censorship is agreed to by all who register to post in this forum. I will gladly give web addresses of other forums I rarely visit because of a lack of "censorship". This makes them unbearable to read on a regular basis due to a proliferation of vulgarity and an overabundance of personal and subjective viewpoints,i.e. "my _____ will beat anything out there, dude!".

Second, as to whether or not this "censorship" constitutes an infringement on free speech, I submit the following. Common courtesy and respect for free speech based on ideals different than our own is a concept that we have lost as a society. We digress to accepting trivial blabble with no socially redeeming value as "free speech". I will never stop anyone from, and completey support anyone's right, to freely express their ideas in a public place, whether I agree with them or not. This forum however is NOT a public place. To post, one must register and agree to the moderator's rules of conduct.

Thirdly, I will read and listen to all views as long as they are expressed in a polite, courteous, and thought-centered manner. I will not however, listen to or read (for very long anyway) garbage uttered by idiots with no point to make or to simply stir up strife and discord amongst people. Do not read this as I believe in no tolerance for objectionable views, just that they should be presented politely and thoughtfully.



------------------
Mike...99 Scrambler 400, 94 Kawasaki Bayou 400(newly rebuilt), 99 Impuls 50(Matt's)



[This message has been edited by MDelby (edited 10-31-1999).]

 

Bravo!!

I don't even visit the other ATV forums because it is so difficult to wade through the garbage to find anything useful. Even though I don't find this format as convenient as the one we used to have, I applaud the moderators' diligence in policing what's posted.

Freedom without responsibility is only indulgence.

 

Andy:

I think this thread is an excellent example of why other threads have been closed. It started out as a discussion of what to do with inappropriate messages on the Board. The topic was prompted by a series of suicidal messages by the same individual. The posts were disturbing to many, including myself. They also indicated that the suicidal individual was in need of support which simply could not be offered in an ATV forum. Thankfully, the moderators stepped in and directed the individual to more appropriate sources for help.

Since then, the concept of freedom of speech has been discussed. At least two well-intentioned people, including yourself and Pflueeb, have even posted messages comparing moderation to the censorship practices of **** Germany. Well, that reflects a common misunderstanding about "freedom of speech," which is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution and most, if not all, State Constitutions. The "Bill of Rights" has nothing to do with moderation of a private bulletin board. The first ten amendments to the constitution were adopted to protect us from the government, not from private individuals. So, "Freedom of Speech" has nothing to do with ATVsConnection.

Another misconception of "Freedom of Speech" is that it is an absolute guarantee of free speech, that an individual can say ANYTHING which he or she wants. That is also untrue. There are limits to the guarantee of free speech. An individual is not free to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. He is not free to curse or utter obscenties in public, etc.

It is not appropriate to compare our moderators to Josef Goebels, the Propaganda Mininster of the Third Reich. There is NO government censureship here. There is NO government propaganda here. There is no agenda of hate. The government has NOTHING to do with how this site is moderated. The moderators' goal of limiting discussion on this site to ATVing is nothing more than common sense. So, there simply is NO comparison to the propaganda tactics of a murderous, fascist government to our moderators' attempts to keep this bulletin board topic focused on the subject of ATVing, rather than suicide or personal tirades.

Unlike the Third Reich, if you, or anyone else, are not satisfied with the moderation by ATVsConnection, you can simply go to another site. That is what happens when you have "Freedom of Speech." In **** Germany, all sources of communications were controlled by the government. Germans could not even watch the movie "King Kong," because it portayed an "Arian" female being handled by a dark-skinned gorilla. The government is not censoring ATVsConnection. However, I believe you would find moderation on any responsible topic-oriented site. As Deskbound very astutely noted, "Freedom without responsibility is only indulgence."

Pflueeb was also right. We are "guests" here, and we are in no position to tell our hosts what kind of conduct they must permit in their own home. MDelby was correct when he pointed out that this is an excellent ATV site, because of the efforts of the moderators.

Perhaps this thread will be closed, because its topic has obviously been exhausted to such an extent that it has headed into discussions which have nothing to do with ATVing. What does four-wheeling have to do with WW2? I know Adolph didn't ride a Suzuki, a Yamaha, or a Honda...but, then again, there was Hirohito?!!!

I would like to thank the moderators for a job well done, and for the guidelines they set forth earlier in this thread.

See you later, Andy, and
Good riding!

Clay

[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-02-1999).]

[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-02-1999).]

 

Thank you, kclayd, for making the distinction between Fascism, Nazism, Censorship, etc., and Moderation of the ATV Connection Forum!

I appreciate your most articulate contrast between the state-supported, ideologically-polarized, oppressive censorship of a totalitarian regime and moderator maintenance of guidelines on a private, voluntary-access website.

Cries of, "Remember the ****'s!" puzzled me also; because, as you point out, no historical parallel exists between a dictatorship's institutionalized, politically-motivated, power-aggrandizing censorship and ATV Connection Forum moderation.

While the **** Third Reich serves conveniently as an example of repression, Communist governments are no slouches in this department either. The former Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact satellites, contemporary Cuba, Viet Nam, and most flagrantly, mainland China (of Democratic National Committee and "I didn't know this was a fundraiser," (Al Gore) fame), take their places in this population. China today jails and persecutes thousands for religious and philosphical beliefs deemed "incorrect" by the Communist Party.

Again, thanks for contributing a much-needed distinction and for your eloquent exposition of the rights, responsibilities, and limitations of "free speech."

Tree Farmer

 

Remember guys, all we do is ride ATVs!!!! Holy cow!

Some of you are beginning to scare me now (you know who you are)

Bob

 

I don't particularly care one way or the other. On one hand, it gets old to hear constant cutbacks over the same tired out topic, but on the other hand, there isn't anything that someone on the forum can write to make my otherwise good day unpleasant either. I'd say just moderate and delete the overly explicit language and let the rest be. I've seen some locked threads that I couldn't really understand why they were closed. My guess is that some moderator just got tired of the topic. Unless the parties involved are doing something wrong, then it would be better left alone. There should indeed be some order in the forums on account of the variety of ages that have access and common desency, but again we must also remember that this is not **** Germany.

------------------
Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*

 

Armymam-
In response to your survey.
1-no
2-no
3-Are you a cartoon?
4-Those who trade freedom for security have neither

 

Ho Ho Ho! This is getting funnier!

 

Whiskey,

K-K obviously needed help. This is not the forum for it. None of us are equipped to deal with the sort of crisis he is suffering, or at least the kind he said he was suffering. I think that the moderators did him a favor by steering his pleas for help away, so he could find them at an appropriate place. There are numerous chat rooms for persons suffering depression, or suicidal ideation. K-K can get the support and help he needs in any of them. About the only information he can count on getting from an ATV forum involve 4wheelers and AATVs. Even that information is not necessarily reliable.

If you are concerned about K-K, please e-mail him. His address is:
t.swango@mail.bethanywv.edu

I have not received a reply from him since last Friday. He may want to hear from you.

Good riding!

Clay