GORE IF HE WINS................
#21
11-12-2000 | 08:18 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 412
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Unions are a business. Plain and simple. Yes, they CAN make it better for workers, but their (union management) main agenda is the monthly dues paid by millions.
The company I work for, and it's employees are routinely HARRASSED by unions. We have been "salted", sued, and as the union handbooks call for, "generally disrupted". We are telephoned repeatedly, have visitors at the door, all times of the day.
Last time they came to my home, I asked, "I know where the union hall is. Why don't you just leave me alone ?" Never did get a good answer.
I am an electrician, and make approximately 3 dollars less on the hour than local union scale. I get 5 paid holidays, and 2 weeks vacation per year. I never get laid off. I work as many or as few hours per week as I like. I have a company vehicle, and I go to the job from home, and back from from there. If I work harder than the next guy, I am monetarily rewarded. If I sit on my fat a$$ and don't do $hit for 8 hours, I will most likely be fired. And that is as it should be. And if that were to happen, I would not deserve to have my job handed back to me after the next contract negotiation.
So please tell me, what a union could do for me. I don't intend to start a flame war here, just a touchy subject.
The company I work for, and it's employees are routinely HARRASSED by unions. We have been "salted", sued, and as the union handbooks call for, "generally disrupted". We are telephoned repeatedly, have visitors at the door, all times of the day.
Last time they came to my home, I asked, "I know where the union hall is. Why don't you just leave me alone ?" Never did get a good answer.
I am an electrician, and make approximately 3 dollars less on the hour than local union scale. I get 5 paid holidays, and 2 weeks vacation per year. I never get laid off. I work as many or as few hours per week as I like. I have a company vehicle, and I go to the job from home, and back from from there. If I work harder than the next guy, I am monetarily rewarded. If I sit on my fat a$$ and don't do $hit for 8 hours, I will most likely be fired. And that is as it should be. And if that were to happen, I would not deserve to have my job handed back to me after the next contract negotiation.
So please tell me, what a union could do for me. I don't intend to start a flame war here, just a touchy subject.
#22
11-12-2000 | 09:16 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 1
Dave,
if a given unions main agenda is to collect dues by the millions on a monthly basis,then they need not to be funtioning anymore.Your correct,there are some unions out there like that.
Generally speaking,Big corporations usually rake in huge profits,but generally, without a bargining source, [UNIONS] the employee's are the ones to suffer.There is allmost certain to be unfair labor practices such as being forced to work 50-60hrs per wk at just above minimum wage,not giving a schudule or certain shift,senority means NOTHING,working conditions suffer[safety] and you could lose your job for ANY reason if you are disliked by management.
In the hands of a good union,and depending on the type jobs we are refering to,the employee's will earn respectable ''LIVEABLE'' wages,increases in pay are AUTOMATIC,no begging your boss for it,jobs are assigned on a SENORITY basis,the higher senority employee's are subjected to the better jobs and longer vacations.Safety is monitored on a REGULAR basis,and if your boss did'nt like the length of your hair ect,you could seek out your union steward.If fired for an unjustly cause,you are certain to get your job back with backpay.A good union will put up with no harassment of any member by the company either.A good union makes your quality of life better by accomplishing the above.
I suggest if you are happy with the conditions of your job and your current pay,there is no need to join the union,however,if you do the math based on only 40 hrs of work per week and making 3 dollers more an hr,you'd be earning only 120 dollars more per wk, and annually only around 6200 hundred more yearly.
Heck,I cant think of anyone who could use a extra 6200 annually, LOL,
Bill
if a given unions main agenda is to collect dues by the millions on a monthly basis,then they need not to be funtioning anymore.Your correct,there are some unions out there like that.
Generally speaking,Big corporations usually rake in huge profits,but generally, without a bargining source, [UNIONS] the employee's are the ones to suffer.There is allmost certain to be unfair labor practices such as being forced to work 50-60hrs per wk at just above minimum wage,not giving a schudule or certain shift,senority means NOTHING,working conditions suffer[safety] and you could lose your job for ANY reason if you are disliked by management.
In the hands of a good union,and depending on the type jobs we are refering to,the employee's will earn respectable ''LIVEABLE'' wages,increases in pay are AUTOMATIC,no begging your boss for it,jobs are assigned on a SENORITY basis,the higher senority employee's are subjected to the better jobs and longer vacations.Safety is monitored on a REGULAR basis,and if your boss did'nt like the length of your hair ect,you could seek out your union steward.If fired for an unjustly cause,you are certain to get your job back with backpay.A good union will put up with no harassment of any member by the company either.A good union makes your quality of life better by accomplishing the above.
I suggest if you are happy with the conditions of your job and your current pay,there is no need to join the union,however,if you do the math based on only 40 hrs of work per week and making 3 dollers more an hr,you'd be earning only 120 dollars more per wk, and annually only around 6200 hundred more yearly.
Heck,I cant think of anyone who could use a extra 6200 annually, LOL,
Bill
#23
11-12-2000 | 09:16 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 1
Dave,
if a given unions main agenda is to collect dues by the millions on a monthly basis,then they need not to be funtioning anymore.Your correct,there are some unions out there like that.
Generally speaking,Big corporations usually rake in huge profits,but generally, without a bargining source, [UNIONS] the employee's are the ones to suffer.There is allmost certain to be unfair labor practices such as being forced to work 50-60hrs per wk at just above minimum wage,not giving a schudule or certain shift,senority means NOTHING,working conditions suffer[safety] and you could lose your job for ANY reason if you are disliked by management.
In the hands of a good union,and depending on the type jobs we are refering to,the employee's will earn respectable ''LIVEABLE'' wages,increases in pay are AUTOMATIC,no begging your boss for it,jobs are assigned on a SENORITY basis,the higher senority employee's are subjected to the better jobs and longer vacations.Safety is monitored on a REGULAR basis,and if your boss did'nt like the length of your hair ect,you could seek out your union steward.If fired for an unjustly cause,you are certain to get your job back with backpay.A good union will put up with no harassment of any member by the company either.A good union makes your quality of life better by accomplishing the above.
I suggest if you are happy with the conditions of your job and your current pay,there is no need to join the union,however,if you do the math based on only 40 hrs of work per week and making 3 dollers more an hr,you'd be earning only 120 dollars more per wk, and annually only around 6200 hundred more yearly.
Heck,I cant think of anyone who could use a extra 6200 annually, LOL,
Bill
if a given unions main agenda is to collect dues by the millions on a monthly basis,then they need not to be funtioning anymore.Your correct,there are some unions out there like that.
Generally speaking,Big corporations usually rake in huge profits,but generally, without a bargining source, [UNIONS] the employee's are the ones to suffer.There is allmost certain to be unfair labor practices such as being forced to work 50-60hrs per wk at just above minimum wage,not giving a schudule or certain shift,senority means NOTHING,working conditions suffer[safety] and you could lose your job for ANY reason if you are disliked by management.
In the hands of a good union,and depending on the type jobs we are refering to,the employee's will earn respectable ''LIVEABLE'' wages,increases in pay are AUTOMATIC,no begging your boss for it,jobs are assigned on a SENORITY basis,the higher senority employee's are subjected to the better jobs and longer vacations.Safety is monitored on a REGULAR basis,and if your boss did'nt like the length of your hair ect,you could seek out your union steward.If fired for an unjustly cause,you are certain to get your job back with backpay.A good union will put up with no harassment of any member by the company either.A good union makes your quality of life better by accomplishing the above.
I suggest if you are happy with the conditions of your job and your current pay,there is no need to join the union,however,if you do the math based on only 40 hrs of work per week and making 3 dollers more an hr,you'd be earning only 120 dollars more per wk, and annually only around 6200 hundred more yearly.
Heck,I cant think of anyone who could use a extra 6200 annually, LOL,
Bill
#24
11-13-2000 | 12:39 AM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
rhubler
I just wanted to clarify something; Allen Greenspan a god of the almighty dollar controls the office of Federal Reserve.
No administration can dictate to the officer of the Federal Reserve. They can fire him, but cannot dictate policy.
If you have ever watched PBS when Allen Greenspan is giving a synopsis of his intentions for the union. It is absolutely amasing,,,,,,,everyone in the room is hanging on his every breath. If you want to give any credit for the economy don't look at Clinton. Look at Greenspan!
Greenspan is amazing; he does not invest in the stock market for reasons of conflict of interest. Earns a meager salary for his brilliance keeping the books for the all mighty dollar. Clinton may be president but Greenspan is the zephyr of at least the last eight years of this economy.
Greenspan has done such a job that his face should be coined on currency--legal tender!
I just wanted to clarify something; Allen Greenspan a god of the almighty dollar controls the office of Federal Reserve.
No administration can dictate to the officer of the Federal Reserve. They can fire him, but cannot dictate policy.
If you have ever watched PBS when Allen Greenspan is giving a synopsis of his intentions for the union. It is absolutely amasing,,,,,,,everyone in the room is hanging on his every breath. If you want to give any credit for the economy don't look at Clinton. Look at Greenspan!
Greenspan is amazing; he does not invest in the stock market for reasons of conflict of interest. Earns a meager salary for his brilliance keeping the books for the all mighty dollar. Clinton may be president but Greenspan is the zephyr of at least the last eight years of this economy.
Greenspan has done such a job that his face should be coined on currency--legal tender!
#25
11-13-2000 | 10:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 483
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Trx..you're so correct, credit needs to go to Greenspan regarding our current economy.
Unions: I don't know too much on this subject. However, I did have a friend that was in the union. His job was to sweep the floor. He was paid $12 an hour to sweep the floor (this was 10 years ago). Personally, I think that is outrageous. There was a time and place in this country for unions. However that time has passed. As BLH stated, if the working conditions are where they should be, safety conditions, fair salary, etc....why the need for the union?
Unions: I don't know too much on this subject. However, I did have a friend that was in the union. His job was to sweep the floor. He was paid $12 an hour to sweep the floor (this was 10 years ago). Personally, I think that is outrageous. There was a time and place in this country for unions. However that time has passed. As BLH stated, if the working conditions are where they should be, safety conditions, fair salary, etc....why the need for the union?
#26
11-13-2000 | 01:37 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 1
FKNA,
The key word here is ''IF''?
IF the working conditions are where they should be
?
IF the safety is where it should be?
IF the wages are where they should be?
IF there is no harrassment from management?
IF fair labor practices are enforced?
Thats the whole problem,in big bussiness,there are FAR to many ''IFS'' without a good union.I cant see a damn thing wrong with your buddie making 12 dollars per hr for sweeping the floors.Im certain that if the company he is working for thought it was to much to pay for a sweeper,than they would'nt have agreed to it in the collective bargining agreement with the union.Big companys make Big $$,there is nothing wrong with sharing it with the ones who are ultimately responsable for the sucess of the company.Im also betting if you were to ask your buddie how many yrs it took to get that EASY sweeping job,he'd surely tell you that he did'nt start out sweeping at that job.He probably has spent many yrs on a much more difficult job and has EARNED the senority rights to that easier job.
You said there is a time and place for unions,and that time has passed.You could'nt be any further from the truth.How'd you like to work 50-60 hrs a wk to support your family at wages hardly above minimum wage?How'd you like knowing your shift and hrs are differant EVERY wk?How about harrassment from the ''BIG BRASS MANAGEMENT''?How about having NO benifits from the same company who forces you to work 50-60 hrs per wk?How you going to pay them medical bills that are coming in?You have to care for your familys medical you know?What about senority rights?Would'nt you like some SOB that the boss really likes to come in and take the same job you been doing for yrs to now move you to another job and give him yours?I could go ON and ON.You obviously have'nt seen this part of the working force and I hope you never have to,however,it does exist,and when it does,you'd be the first one to support a GOOD union,
Bill
The key word here is ''IF''?
IF the working conditions are where they should be
?
IF the safety is where it should be?
IF the wages are where they should be?
IF there is no harrassment from management?
IF fair labor practices are enforced?
Thats the whole problem,in big bussiness,there are FAR to many ''IFS'' without a good union.I cant see a damn thing wrong with your buddie making 12 dollars per hr for sweeping the floors.Im certain that if the company he is working for thought it was to much to pay for a sweeper,than they would'nt have agreed to it in the collective bargining agreement with the union.Big companys make Big $$,there is nothing wrong with sharing it with the ones who are ultimately responsable for the sucess of the company.Im also betting if you were to ask your buddie how many yrs it took to get that EASY sweeping job,he'd surely tell you that he did'nt start out sweeping at that job.He probably has spent many yrs on a much more difficult job and has EARNED the senority rights to that easier job.
You said there is a time and place for unions,and that time has passed.You could'nt be any further from the truth.How'd you like to work 50-60 hrs a wk to support your family at wages hardly above minimum wage?How'd you like knowing your shift and hrs are differant EVERY wk?How about harrassment from the ''BIG BRASS MANAGEMENT''?How about having NO benifits from the same company who forces you to work 50-60 hrs per wk?How you going to pay them medical bills that are coming in?You have to care for your familys medical you know?What about senority rights?Would'nt you like some SOB that the boss really likes to come in and take the same job you been doing for yrs to now move you to another job and give him yours?I could go ON and ON.You obviously have'nt seen this part of the working force and I hope you never have to,however,it does exist,and when it does,you'd be the first one to support a GOOD union,
Bill
#27
11-13-2000 | 02:05 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 483
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Bill, as my post stated I don't know much regarding the union subject. And you very well be right on just about everything you mentioned. I could only state an "opinion" on this one. That sweeping job I spoke of was with JPL and it was an entry level type position. And I personal thought $12 an hour (10 years ago) was outrageous to be paying someone just to sweep floors.
I will definitely agree on one point....IF is a key factor on any given subject.
I'll leave the union discussion to those that have more knowledge on the subject.
I will definitely agree on one point....IF is a key factor on any given subject.
I'll leave the union discussion to those that have more knowledge on the subject.
#30
11-16-2000 | 09:33 AM
Range Rover
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Bill C
How about when the union worker is a lazy no good bum.He does as little as possible and does a lousy job also? He just shows up to collect a check and doesnt give a damn about the business he works for....But you cant fire him because they are in the union.And the union doesnt care if they are a lazy worthless slob as long as they get their dues and ****backs.
How about when the union worker is a lazy no good bum.He does as little as possible and does a lousy job also? He just shows up to collect a check and doesnt give a damn about the business he works for....But you cant fire him because they are in the union.And the union doesnt care if they are a lazy worthless slob as long as they get their dues and ****backs.