Clutch belt creeping
 

Hi there....I have a 2001 sportsman 500 HO with EBS.

My clutch belt is rubbing the engine side clutch sheave and making the bike creep, hard to shift etc. I rebuilt the clutch about 700 miles ago. My one way bearing is good , but I notice lots of side to side play. How much should I have? I have three washers behind the secondary also. Which direction should I move my lower motor mount to get belt back in the center of the pulley? (replaced mount 700 miles ago too) I would think to the right , but if I'm "twisting" the engine and clutch pulley, then moving to the left should move the belt towards the center of the primary clutch right?
My rad fan stayed on quite a long time during my last ride. It normally shuts off soon after I get moving faster but didn't. Is my sensor getting worn out?

Thanks

2001,2002 models always had trouble on creeping. One way bearing clearance using a feeler gauge against the inside of the bearing against the inner sheath should have no more than .020 clearance or the belt could "walk" it's way over on the one way and not stay centered,touching the inner sheath. When this happens it can be clutch alignment needed(shims that you've already done once) or a worn fiber and brass washer on each side of the one way if side to side play is excessive. First thing I do on the fan running longer is to clean the radiator especially around the back by the fan to eliminate it as the problem. Sometimes you may even need to remove it if you can't clean it thoroughly while installed.

Thats what I thought might be happening ,because of the side to side movement the belt is walking over the pulley grooves. I've got about 1/8" of side to side play there I'm sure. How do I take up that space? Do I use extra PTFE washers or add another brass one?
My rad is clean, I had the bike all apart while working on the carb and replaced my winch at the same time. (all plastics off) I'm wondering if I loosened a connection up front while in or around there? I also started to hear a high pitch noise while the engine is running at idle?

Have to have the spider tool to take the front clutch apart. Just replace the fiber washer and instead of the brass washer called for,use the same size shim that you used on the rear clutch to bring it out. Brass washers were bad about wearing down to nothing. Whining could be fan blade hitting the cover or bearing noise if you only hear this when the fan is on.#2 is the brass washer(replace with the steel shim) #18 is the fiber washer. Dirt Cheap Yamaha, Honda, Arctic Cat & Polaris OEM Parts & Accessories – Cycle Parts Warehouse
Spider tool on ebay or here it's a little cheaper.Drive Clutch Spider Removal and Installation Tool

I made all the tools I needed to dismantle my primary clutch last year. That spider is really on there at around 200 ft lbs! :)
I just got the primary apart late tonight so not much investigating yet. The fiber washer looks ok but the brass one looks cupped. The outer edge has been bent over a bit like it was rubbing something smaller than it. (One way bearing?)
I like your idea on replacing that brass washer and will try it when I reassemble.
Which direction should I try moving the engine to get my belt running in the center again?
Any advice on servicing my one way EBS bearing? I'm going to clean it apply a light grease to the rollers. Is that ok?
I'm not sure if the fan was running when I heard the noise , but good idea on what it could be!

Thanks

Brass washers would cup or just wear down to nothing. Using a steel washer was from a Polaris engineer I talked to years ago when I kept having to change the brass ones out. Have to be careful on the one way as it has small bearings along with thin metal spring plates that hold them in.Grease the clutch shaft then slide the one way back on. If the bearings/strips are worn or rusted out,replace the one way bearing. Shouldn't have to try to move the engine mounts if the one way is snug after the new washers are installed and the rear clutch shimmed out enough for the belt to ride center of the one way.

Thanks OPT.....I'll give it a try in a few days hopefully. Great idea for the steel washer instead of the brass too. I wondered why they even went from the PTFE to brass? My clutch had a PTFE washer on both sides of the one way bearing when I opened it up the first time.
Did u say i should only have about 20 thous of an inch ,side to side play in the one way bearing once the spider is tightened down? How can I shim it if i have more than that ,even after changing the washers? More washers?

Kevin

The PTFE (fiber washer) doesn't change.. You install a new one,replace the worn brass washer with a steel washer that goes in the "cup". It's what puts pressure against the one way after the spider is tightened. The washer that I used and recommended by Polaris was one that's on the back of the driven clutch,NOT any shim inside the clutch.Item #2. Dirt Cheap Yamaha, Honda, Arctic Cat & Polaris OEM Parts & Accessories – Cycle Parts Warehouse #7556120 (.906 x 1.38 x .060) The same washer that's used on ebs and non ebs clutches.You can match this up at any hardware store. 20 thousandths is correct. With the new washers it may have a little tighter clearance on the one way,but will be fine. Plus this is the same size washer(s) that I used to shim OUT the rear clutch for alignment. Kept a dozen or so in my tool box.

I went looking at my "cup" and one way bearing again and grabbed one of the washers I was using "behind" the secondary clutch and unless I'm missing something , it's way too small to go inside the cup to replace the brass washer. See pics below. That is the same part # you mentioned on cycle parts warehouse too,I've ordered a few of them in the past.

Kevin

Sorry... Brain fade again. :) #7556401 from the older non ebs driven clutches(99 Trail Boss 250/2000 Trail Boss 325 or take the old brass washer and match up overall dimensions at your local hardware store. It's thicker than the brass one and will last longer.

Thanks.....I'll look into getting that size steel washer.....

Kevin

All back together.....I cleaned everything with kerosene. I used two .020 steel shims inside the cup instead of one brass washer. I replaced the PTFE washer on the other end of the one way bearing.Now there is very little , if not any play in the one way bearing side to side movement. I can still easily turn the one way bearing too. Now the belt rides in the center and the bike doesn't creep.
I think I'll shift the engine over to the right if the belt ever rides against the inner sheave again. I do already have three shims behind the secondary now....

Kevin

What number is the steel shim?

Are there any other tools or parts I need to buy to work on this clutch or clutches?

What is the best belt to buy?

I have yet to take the cover off to see what I might need

If you need to shim out the rear clutch,take an existing rear shim and match it up at any hardware store. You need the clutch puller,spider tool and the base. Many have made their own bases and the puller can be bought at most hardware stores. Best belt by far is the oem one by Polaris.

Still a dummy here.

I have a lot of pullers. What is the clutch puller and the base?

I think I see by this picture that the bolt and pin pictured is the clutch puller

https://www.google.com/search?q=2001...hrome&ie=UTF-8

You have a bolt and something else pictured.

If I need to shim, do a I need a longer bolt or is that for reference if my bolt shows wear?

Thanks for the details

WHat is the clutch holder mentioned in this video?

Yes the bolt I pictured was just one you could make to pull the drive clutch from the engine that a lot of people have done. If you already have the one piece clutch puller you can disregard this. The base is the fixture(with legs or bolts) to hold the clutch while you turn the spider to loosen or tighten the clutch to 200 ft pounds.You can buy one or make your own as many have done. Here's a video and tearing a clutch apart and back together.Old geezer like me doing it.

Are there any links to the base or some proper search terms that I can get results from?

I haven't found anything to show me anything.

I ordered this:

SLP Snowmobile Clutch Holding Spider Tool For Polaris 20-162

Isn't cheap. That's why many people make their own. Same for the spider tool. Complete kits are on ebay,but around $240. For a one time use,might be cheaper to just pull the clutches and have them looked at and rebuilt.

That'll work ok, same as the OTC holder.

Ok, I can make the clutch puller. Should have everything here for that.

I have 2 tools ordered. Will there be anything else I will want to have on hand when I get back to it?

I have this: SLP Snowmobile Clutch Holding Spider Tool For Polaris 20-162 | eBay

And this: POLARIS RZR SPORTSMAN RANGER TRAIL BOSS SPIDER NUT LOCKING TOOL LOCK MAGNUM BLAZ | eBay

I was told by the seller That the other tool that looked similar, that I posted a link to, would not work.

Order the main bushing and the one for the cover. These wear out also.There are special tols to remove and install these but you can use a simple bearing and race driver kit from Harbor Freight,Norther Tool,etc if you don't already have this kit. Item#7 and 9 for the bushings.

Ordered.

Thanks

I was going to check the belt to make sure it is a POlaris belt. When I looked at the belt schematic for my 2001 Polaris Sportsman 500, there were 2 belts listed.

Is it possible to install the belt that is not for my machine? Just wondering if I can trust the belt number that is on the machine - if there is a number visible.

How do I tell which belt works on my machine?

10BELT,DRIVE,ENG.BRK.(5)
3211069
$63.10
1
Add to Cart
10BELT,DRIVE,ATV,CLOSE TOL(5) (EB)
3211077
$59.12

2001 Polaris SPORTSMAN 500 HO (A01CH50AK) Driven Clutch A01ch50aa | Cycle Parts Warehouse

2001 was the first year for the ebc clutching system. Only ONE other model had the non ebc and parts break down shows this clutch along with the ebc clutch.Just see if you have the one way bearing on the front clutch. If so,its an ebc and order the belt for it. The old 3211077 was the non ebs belt for years.

How long of bolt do you need for the clutch compression tool for disassembly?

I have 1/2" threaded rod here. Just need a rough Idea on how long a piece I need.

You can either buy a new one for around 20 bucks on ebay or make one. Here's a post and pics from a guy that made his own.Which clutch puller? - Page 2 - Polaris ATV Forum Or the one I showed you before.

Thanks,

I already got that one. I was talking about the Clutch compression tool.

I don't want to make it to short and run out of rod before I run out of spring tension

You don't need a compression tool for either the front or the rear clutch. Just loosen the 6 bolts around the cover a little at a time and tension will be released.On reinstalling just push down on the cover and install the bolts. Tighten in a criss cross manner to 12 foot pounds. On the rear clutch just push down on the helix and remove the circlip. Once the helix comes up the spring will un wind and you can take it apart to change the 3 ramp buttons. Spring sets on the 2-2 position.

Thanks. That's a time saver

The manual(if you don't have it) will show you exactly how to rebuild the clutches along with good step by step pics.https://www.tradebit.com/filedetail....ce-manual-2001

Do you have a part number for the steel washers to shim out the rear clutch and replace the front brass washer and shim if necessary?

I ordered 2 - 7556202

1 ea - 7556204

1 ea - 5850135

4 ea - 7555896

Are there any washers I should order more of? to shim the rear? To replace the brass washer?

There is no hardware store close by that stocks machine washers.

I still have not figured out the clutch alignment without the tool. With the bifocals I just do not see straight anymore. I drill and tap crooked with out a guide anymore. Pretty frustrating.

If I uses a straight edge - like a piece of 1/4" bar stock across the backs of the clutches are there measurements I could get that would put me close?

What is the offset in the clutch alignment tool?

To see if the engine needs to be moved?

I am running on the inside of the front clutch as the O.P. was. I have .030 gap to the one way

Again just match up one of the washer(shims) behind the rear clutch and get a couple extra at a hardware store.This is in case you need to shim the rear clutch out which more than likely you will. I never like clutch alignment tools because the backing plates would always interfere. Just a straight eyeball look down the rear clutch to the front clutch and see if the belt was riding in the center of the one way bearing is what's important.If it's not,shims can be added to the rear clutch to straighten it out. You can take the brass washer and match its dimensions up at any hardware store,or use one of these that was the same size as the brass but thicker. This was what a Polaris engineer recommended as a replacement for the troublesome brass ones..Don't forget to order the teflon washer behind the one way bearing.Read over this again..https://atvconnection.com/forums/pol...-creeping.html

I ordered these:
NOS Polaris Multi Use Bushings Xpress Swedish Magnum Trail Boss 7556401 QTY9 - $24.78 shipped.

Beats driving 60 miles without being able to phone first without a description. I searched bu could not find dimensions for the washers
Thanks

I'd do the straight eye, but I lost it someplace over the years. Might have been the 40+ years of welding got the better of me

Might be wrong but the dimensions seemed like 2" od by 1.5" id by .020" thick best I can remember.Or could be 1.5" od 1" id by .020. Either way you'll find out when you get them.

I must be getting some thing wrong.

I ordered 2 of the brass washers - 7556202 that you said to order the steel replacement washers. 1.39x1.99x.030

I ordered 15 of the Steel washers - part number 7556401 - that I thought you said were the steel replacement washers for the brass washer Pt. 7556202

These are way different. I am guessing the steel washers must be the spacer washers for the rear - driven clutch?

Do you have a part number for the steel washers that replace the brass washers in the front / driven clutch?

Easier to just match this size up at any hardware store. The original poster used two washers that were .020 thick each. 2.0" od x1.50" id x.020" thick. The steel washer numbers I used(replacement for the brass) were given to me by the Polaris engineer. They were the inner clutch shims from a Trail Blazer,what year I can't remember as evidently the 7556401 isn't right. They may work as shims for the rear clutch.Again just match up one of the brass washers or use the size above for the one way bearing. The cup is large enough for the slightly larger steel washer(2x1.5x.20) The original brass was this size. 7556202 WASHER-1.39X1.99X.030,BRASS

I assumed tighter tolerances. I would never have thought to go from 1.39 to 1.5. I have some washers about the right size here, but they are rusty from years of sitting on the shelf.

You must have a lot better hardware stores by you, than we have around here. Hardware stores around here are lucky to have anything bigger than 1/2"

The old time hardware stores are all gone as is most everything else in these little towns.

The hardware stores / supply houses around here that would sell washers this size, do not stock anything. You have to order. So I just as well save driving 50 miles to order a washer, call MSC and order one, now that I have dimensions. Or I could make some or have them made.. I've made a lot of washers over the years. But in general, it's not worth it, if you can buy them.

The implement dealers might have a washer the correct size. But they would never be able to find it unless I had a part number for it anymore.

Finally found the washers I used that came from a 98 Trail Blazer(not the earlier models) and also used in snowmobile driven clutches. 7555898.Polaris ATV Parts 1998 W98BA25C TRAIL BLAZER DRIVEN CLUTCH Diagram
POLARIS OEM NOS SNOWMOBILE ATV CLUTCH SHIM 1.5 X 2.0X .020 PK QTY LOT 4 7555898 | eBay Since watching the video you have a more serious problem on the worn out bushings and noise from the spider.If the clutch towers are deeply grooved,new guide buttons may not help also.I'd just take the clutch off and let the dealer look at it.

For shimming the drive clutch using steel, instead of the brass washers, I ordered - 16 of the washers - Polaris Pt.# from the link you provided.

They will work on my backhoe pins also

If you can get the clutch to work right that'd be great,but if in the end if it's too far gone,there are aftermarket ebs clutches now about half the price of what the oem clutches cost.NEW Primary Drive Clutch EBS 1998-2005 Polaris Sportsman 500 Engine Braking | eBay