I don't like this idea so much really... but I'd be lying if I said I haven't been heavily considering the option.

I am an east coast woods rider... mix of everything, including tight technical stuff. I need to do an internal build-up on my quad. 406/416/426 kit and the other goodies I should do while I'm at it. But I don't have the space or time for it, and so far I haven't even found a builder to do it for me......

I've been developing some backup options in case I decide not to do the internal buildup.

I really hate to though because I won't get near what I already have in it... due to the add-on accessories... and many of those items will be to buy again... which I'm not looking forward to that much.

I wish Honda had a new much meaner version of the 400EX that all my stuff would bolt on. But they don't. This has even left me wondering if my NEEDED items like my PRM skids, bumper, etc would fit a 450R since they are similar?

Anyways, you guys know I'm an eastern woods rider...
My current list of findings is pretty long still...

'08 Suzuki LTZ 400
'08 Kawasaki KFX 450R
'08 Polaris Outlaw 450 MXR
'06 Polaris Outlaw 500 IRS
'08 Polaris Outlaw 525 S
'08 Yamaha 700R


I also found an '06 TRX450ER and an '07 YFZ450.
But I'm really not sure it's practical or possible to gear either one down enough for the tight woods. I've also considered the Outlaw 525 IRS, but have not found a reasonable one yet.


What do you guys think?

 

To be honest, if you are that apprehensive about dumping your 400ex, I would not do it........Just do the mods..... Not too many ATVs are as good in the tight woods as a 400ex so I think with the z400 or KFX450 you'd be disappointed, they are both made to rev a bit and like the more open trails.

 

I'm not "eastern", but I do ride tight woods trails in the mountains. All the 450's and the Z400 as well to some extent, need to be ridden reved out....they don't like to be lugged down. The EX on the other hand, will lug all day long!

Even a geared down 450 can be a pain on a tight trail, because of all the clutch slipping that is required.

The Raptor 700 will lug, but all those cc's are just wased in the woods, where you don't get out of 3rd gear anyway.

 

If you ride tight technical trails like I do with some steep rock climbs stick with the 400ex or the 700R you cant go wrong if you are a taller/bigger guy the 700 will make you feel more at home!

P.S. You can never have to many CC's [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger

I'm not "eastern", but I do ride tight woods trails in the mountains. All the 450's and the Z400 as well to some extent, need to be ridden reved out....they don't like to be lugged down. The EX on the other hand, will lug all day long!



Even a geared down 450 can be a pain on a tight trail, because of all the clutch slipping that is required.



The Raptor 700 will lug, but all those cc's are just wased in the woods, where you don't get out of 3rd gear anyway.</end quote></div>

reconranger,

You know I trust your judgement to a great degree. With that, here's some rattling off of some of my observations....

* My 400EX was geared 14/38 when I got it... and it lugs pretty well even with it's age. I've also ridden a 2005 450R with one tooth less on the front and it was not low enough. I found an '06 or '07 and the salesman said the newer ones are geared much better for trail (is this true?).

To me, it almost feels like it might be impossible to gear them down well enough for tight trails (450R & YFZ)... What do you think?

* My 400EX is really great in the tight low-speed areas... except the fact it's cooking my legs pretty quickly. Are the other liquid cooled quads cooler on the legs?.... I know I must be getting older now because I never paid attention before. My Polaris sure is much better there, but not a fair comparison, like your Rancher wouldn't be...

* I ride a little of everything with my 400EX. Tight trails is not all I do, and it is those times I notice the EX could use a little more. So I wouldn't really waste something like a 700R really. Just whatever I get needs to be able to take the slower pace too.

I like the 700R... I just find it to at least feel a little tall. I like to run sag in my suspension... so I wonder if I could do a lot to bring it down some with adjustments, lowering links, etc?

* Was it you that got to try a KFX450R?... Or was that some else? If not, what did you think of it?


* Lastly, just as an observation, a 400EX has a stroke of about 70mm. I've noticed that the bikes said to have less lugging ability tend to have pretty close to a 60mm stroke.

I've also noticed that the KTM and Polaris/Fuji engines are longer stroke like the 400EX engine. Nothing has really been said about the Polaris Outlaw options yet..... Might be a good option.

 

I had another thought too, which I kind of feel stupid about right now because it would be a considerable extra investment in a new quad....

But I did think about throwing the Rekluse clutch addition into the options.
(Rekluse is the only conversion I'm aware of)

One can be had for ANY of the 450's... any Polaris... and I believe any of the Z400's.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: duster

I also found an '06 TRX450ER and an '07 YFZ450.

But I'm really not sure it's practical or possible to gear either one down enough for the tight woods.</end quote></div>

I have almost decided to eliminate these two off the list.

For one, neither has reverse. On one hand, I know they are light like my 400EX, but on the other hand, I have one with reverse and one without... so this does make me realize the pain in the butt it can be.

Second, I'm not at all sure what these two newer STOCK models are like verses the older modded versions I am familar with. They could well be much better at the trails... but the question would remain... "would they be better than the Kawi or Polaris that has the bonus of reverse?"

I think I have only kept them in mind because I never did tinker any with the modded YFZ450.... and both have soooooooo much more aftermarket support it seems.

 

For the woods my choice would be the raptor 700r it just always seemed like more of a trail quad to me

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ebaccm26

For the woods my choice would be the raptor 700r it just always seemed like more of a trail quad to me</end quote></div>

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I have to admit that the 700R does seem like quite a bit of a 'sure bet' for the riding I like to do.

I don't like how tall they sit though.
But getting a new/newer one with the fully adjustable shocks should do a lot for that.


Truth be told, there is something I am leary about on every choice for replacement I have.

* '06 Outlaw 500 IRS - First year?... IRS?... How it compares to the 525?
* '08 Outlaw 525 S - Front shocks?
* '08 Outlaw MXR - Low end v/s 525?

* '08 KFX450R - Enough low end grunt?

* Z400 & 700R - Tall feel



Hopefully I hear from an engine builder tomorrow, and hopefully I'll get to take my EX in for a little pro diagnosis.... and maybe I'll be able to better tell where I stand on rather I'm building or trading.

 

I have a friend who is in the same boat as you. He has a raptor 700 and she has a 400 ex (stock). She wants to trade off her 400 for a raptor cuz she likes it better than the 400, only because of the power. I tried to convince her to mod out her 400 instead. I'm not a honda guy, but I do know the 400 ex is great on trails and you can get a lot more power out of them with mods. I have owned a raptor, and although they have made some improvements since the 660, they are still tall and lunky. They take a lot of body english to control, I equate it to riding a snowmobile! The 400 is so much easier to ride and flick around. The problem I would have in your situation is that I would trade the 400 for a raptor, take it in the a** in value, ride the raptor for a couple of months and then want more power and mod it out. So, now I would be back where I was with the 400, only broke! I have had several atv's. I ride mostly woods and trails, some sand when I can make the trip to the coast. I have to admit I love the 400/500 class. Plenty of power to be had with mods and light and easy to ride.

BTW Reconranger is dead on when he said all those cc's of the 700 are a waste in the woods. My predator is well known for it's top speed, but I never see it unless I go to the sand. I find myself in 2nd and 3rd gear most of the time. When I do hit 4th gear my a**hole begins to tighten significantly! LMAO!

So, if I were you I would seriously consider modding out the 400 (it sounds like you already are researching it). I have considered the same of my preddy, boring, porting heads, etc. But it would cost about $1300 and I just don't see paying that much to get another 5hp's. SO, I guess I'll live with it. Really, it's plenty fast the way it is.

You did mention the outlaws. I would stick with the KTM motor, much better than the Fuji. The IRS is awesome for the trails. Definitely worth considering. There are some people with outlaws on this forum in the polaris section that could give you some good feedback.