<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PoolGod230

Nice Randy! That looks better than my scribbling!

My thoughts exactly, get the a-arms that I want then have works make them (shocks) for me! Like I said this is down the line for me. But my friend is feeling a lil sorry for me and is willin to do some work while I am down! For once I am gonna take advantage of it. BTW the dang suzuki dealer was closed!! which is fine cause PT was a bit@h!</end quote></div>

Ahh,,,, its just some computer aided scribbling I did months ago. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] You should see my desk. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

You could always find someone on ebay in ask them how long things are that they are selling.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: 4xJeep

I agree. Excellent CAD depictions and exactly where I need to go.



My exposure has been limited to running the 230 around a few yards before demolition, a 250EX, 400EX, 450R and Blaster.. not hard to guess which seemed the best, which I assumed mostly due to width and reserve shocks.



I lean toward a longer replacement arm and matching/similar shock combination w/shorter mounting bracket...and start with the donor geometry?</end quote></div>


I used to love the 250ex when it was the only quad around here. That thing would zip thru the trails I made out back. Then I started on the 230 and made it wider n faster, now the 250ex feels riding a shopping cart. Its slow and flips easy in turns and doesn't like to do a donut or wheelie.

I dont know why we have to get a 450 to get a good chassis. Seems like the smaller the engine, the better a rider you have to be to control the thing. IE. the small 110's for kids. Those thing are so messed up if you just look at it funny it flips over on its back. I bet in yrs to come the 250's will start to look like the 450's. It will take some time, but the 250 class is alive and well.

 

Ok, I'm thinking about going with a big bore kit now. I took my head off and the piston was covered in oil and the head gasket was dripping with it. Also, there is at least .015 gap between the piston and the wall. I think the bore job last march was **** because I can still see the hone marks, so I know the piston didnt wear the cylinder that big. The 2504wd has .002 at most. The book also says .002 at most.

SO,,,, who do I call? I think kuston kraft was one brought up a lot around here.... I found madmanengineering and powroll online. Of course there's always ebay, but then I have to find someone to resleeve.

What I'd "like" to do is put my topend from the 230 to the 2504wd and have a 68x72 @ 10.25:1 instead of 66x72 @ 8.5:1 stock. Then put the big bore kit on my quadsport. As long as the rod small ends are the same, it should work. I suppose if I was really needing to spend a lot of money I could get 2 big bore kits and have a 70-71?x72. IF the rods are the same.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy

Ok, I'm thinking about going with a big bore kit now. I took my head off and the piston was covered in oil and the head gasket was dripping with it. Also, there is at least .015 gap between the piston and the wall. I think the bore job last march was **** because I can still see the hone marks, so I know the piston didnt wear the cylinder that big. The 2504wd has .002 at most. The book also says .002 at most.


Sounds like you need a snap guage, measure the bore and see what you are working with, even if you shelve it for the future. Yep, standard is .002, (max .0047) but either way it wouldn't seem you have sufficient compression or would have smoked significantly since last march, so I would inspect the rest.

I had my work done locally(just a standard re-bore)...but there are a few kits on eBay (Item number: 300154727019).

 

Well, if I can slide a .010 feeler on one side and a .005 on the other,,,, no matter how you look at it,,, its over .002, lol. And the piston had oil on top, so oil was getting there somehow and must have been getting burned. But I only noticed it that one time when the airbox was full of water (I washed it really good the day before [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ). After that, everybody (... the same everybody that told me I was burning oil), said they seen no more smoke. Anyway, I always said I was trying to wear it out for an excuse to get the big bore kit. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

A few disappointments:
1) Since I was burning oil for so long, that threw off all that jetting work I did. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]
2) Now the piston and head is covered in carbon. So much on the head that it was burned white and probably glowed red while I was riding. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
3) My sleeve is junk because .080 is as big as you can go with it.

I'll just put it on the 4wd if I can. It may burn a little oil that is mostly unnoticeable, but it will have a lot more power due to the high comp domed piston. So, that leaves me in need of a sleeve and a piston for the 230. And if the 230 stuff dont work on the 4wd, I'll still need a new sleeve for the 230. So either way, I'll have to get a BB kit. Or put a new head gasket back on and just ride it the way it is.

 

Randy, If you don't go big bore, fishguy has a clean jug!

But if you end up going big, what will your cam choice be? Just curious after all your research what your decision would be.

 

I have some questions for the machinists that do the big bore, namely, is there an overbore after that or is this a one-time deal? That's the most important one. And I also need to know the compression ratio. Compression ratio trumps cc's anyday.

On cams (big can-o-worms)... I still say the megacycle makes the most sense. But its so close to the stock cam its hard to spend $300+ on a HP or 2. Hotcams is most likely a stock cam with a misprint. Webcams.... I dont think they ever dynoed any of their 230 cams. Why would they? Nobody races them? I'm sure the warrior, R450, 400, etc cams are spot on, but the smaller/older quads are just educated guesses and way before the day of CAD. Even w/o simulation software, I still take issue with the webcam design just because its a "square" cam. Usually (ie. always) the exhaust has a longer duration that the intake (except for rare things like circle track racing - NASCAR - where you pretty much stay revved out all the time). And the exhaust almost always needs more help than the intake on ANYTHING! The exhaust valve is always smaller than the intake. Does the air magically disappear that gets sucked into the chamber? Nope, it still needs just as big a hole to get out as what brought it in. So, therefore, I say the cam should have a longer exhaust duration than the intake. And my simulation software agrees.

According to the sims, you can get the stage 1 webcam to be almost as good as stock by tweaking a few things (porting, exhaust, valve size, etc), but the stage 2 cam loses hp across the board consistently no matter what you do. I've been playing with that software since 2002 and I've never seen that happen with anybody's aftermarket cam. (...and I've tested a lot of cams for my 460). They never LOSE hp! I dont know what to make of it exactly, but its not encouraging me to run out and get a webcam for my 230. Like I said earlier though, the warrior cams are probably ok because they've been race tested and refined over the yrs. The 230 was discontinued before CAD software got off the ground.

Probably, if I do get a new cam, I'll design it using the software with the REAL flow numbers from my head. Vince has told me he didn't get anymore flow after .280 lift and I need to comfirm that and inform the software of that as well. The program will run millions of simulations to find the perfect cam for peak HP, torque, or area under the HP or torque curves. Then, after weeks of running sims, I'll have webcams make it.

If money is no object, get the megacycle cam. Its not a radical departure from stock, but it does offer a little more duration and lift. The webcam design is a radical departure.

Also, on the subject of cams, I'm a little hesitant to get a longer duration cam with a big bore kit because of the long stroke the 230 has. Take a long stroke, add a much bigger piston, now ask it to go up n down even faster than the engineers planned so you can take advantage of a high duration cam and what do you think will happen? Sounds like gambling to me. Maybe a better plan is to boost the low end even more and maximize the AREA under the HP curve and NOT the max HP. That will call for a shorter duration cam than stock.

If you want a high revving, long duration cam setup, get an '86 honda 250 quad. It will have more peak HP than the 230 anyday because the stroke is not as long. But it wont have more area under the curve and it will have less low end grunt. But peak HP sells and nobody cares about area under the curve, lol.

 

Oh, keep in mind too that webcams has about 15 grinds for the 230 on file. I dont know why they dont list them in the catalog,,, ink is cheap, especially cyberink.

 

Yeah, I was think of using my stock cam instead of the stage 2. Or taking the stage 1 out of the wifes (she'd kill me!)

 

Since you have them both, maybe in the interest of science you can do a comparison. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]