Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
Sep 28, 2004 | 03:07 PM
#1
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
First off I'd like to say you seem to know a lot about towing and have some great usuable information and formulas. I'm only looking to debate not bash.
But I'm curious as to where the info came from that recommends you only tow 80% of the vehicle's rating and why do your calculations typically come up lower than what the manufacturer says/prints? Is this recommendation purely a reliability issue? Are we being mislead by them?
Most 1/2 ton pu today are factory rated around 9000 lb + towing capacity maximum, properly equiped and set up. Not only is this advertised but it is also in writing in the owners manual. To me that says I can tow that weight everyday without fear, for the life of the warranty period because it is guarranteed to do so by the factory. Of course you would need to follow the maintenance schedule exactly as stated.
Personally I think the trucks are under rated, there has to be some sort of safety factor in there. Manufacturers don't publish/advertise those numbers hoping the consumer will be conservative. They would be leaving themselves wide open for law suites. Winning one would be another matter though.
In my job I use a lot of crane rigging equipment and that equipment typically has a 1.5 or better safety factor built in. Most equipment where injury or lives could be lost front that part malfuctioning has this type of safety factor.
With anythink you also have operator error but if I were competent and unconcerned with long term reliability issues what would be the problem?
Comments Please
But I'm curious as to where the info came from that recommends you only tow 80% of the vehicle's rating and why do your calculations typically come up lower than what the manufacturer says/prints? Is this recommendation purely a reliability issue? Are we being mislead by them?
Most 1/2 ton pu today are factory rated around 9000 lb + towing capacity maximum, properly equiped and set up. Not only is this advertised but it is also in writing in the owners manual. To me that says I can tow that weight everyday without fear, for the life of the warranty period because it is guarranteed to do so by the factory. Of course you would need to follow the maintenance schedule exactly as stated.
Personally I think the trucks are under rated, there has to be some sort of safety factor in there. Manufacturers don't publish/advertise those numbers hoping the consumer will be conservative. They would be leaving themselves wide open for law suites. Winning one would be another matter though.
In my job I use a lot of crane rigging equipment and that equipment typically has a 1.5 or better safety factor built in. Most equipment where injury or lives could be lost front that part malfuctioning has this type of safety factor.
With anythink you also have operator error but if I were competent and unconcerned with long term reliability issues what would be the problem?
Comments Please
Sep 28, 2004 | 05:17 PM
#2
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
I agree with you easter egg. Trucks are underrated to an extent. Its a built in safety factor.
Granted, if you are going to be towing at or near the truck's limit on a regular basis, you should get a bigger truck. But thats not to say you cant approach the limit for a monthly camping trip or an excusion to the dunes with the big enclosed trailer.
I have never heard of this 80% rule before. Perhaps it is meant for what I mentioned above; if you plan on towing over 80% on a daily or very frequent basis, you should look for a heavier duty truck.
I'd like to hear the explanation on this one too...
Granted, if you are going to be towing at or near the truck's limit on a regular basis, you should get a bigger truck. But thats not to say you cant approach the limit for a monthly camping trip or an excusion to the dunes with the big enclosed trailer.
I have never heard of this 80% rule before. Perhaps it is meant for what I mentioned above; if you plan on towing over 80% on a daily or very frequent basis, you should look for a heavier duty truck.
I'd like to hear the explanation on this one too...
Sep 28, 2004 | 07:06 PM
#3
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
First off it's blackandredwarrior. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] And I enjoy debating.
Every single towing forum I've been in I see people recommending 80%. It's for the longevity of the truck. As an example at work we have a '94 F-Series Super Duty (now known as an F-450). We killed the first tranny at +/-65,000 miles. That was around 1999 or so. It now has a newer revision of the tranny thanks to a great service manager (and fellow quader I might add.) And I just have a huge doubt that the automatic trannies in these half-ton trucks would hold up to nearly constant full load pulling.
I believe that the reason for my calculations coming up low for towing (i.e. the 70+ lb driver for a Nissan Titan @ 9,000lb trailer) with the half tons is that they just don't have a very high GVWR. That 10% tongue weight ends up transfering to the truck and needs to be figured into the GVWR. You have to realise they rate these trucks empty with just a driver. How many people are going to be recreating, pulling a trailer with just one person. Being single, maybe I would. Also, for every pound you put in the truck, you lose 10 pounds of towing capacity (for a bumper tow trailer). Say you have 4 good sized adult men (200lbs ea...mind you they are probably a little over weight, but stats say most Americans are) that is 800 lbs of people. That's equivelent to what an 8,000 lb trailer puts onto the truck.
I'm not sure of any other state, but the State of California says that one shall not exceed any rating from the manufacturer. And that a vehicle should not be loaded in an unsafe manner and exceeding the ratings of truck, IMHO, could be construded as an unsafe loading of the vehicle. Though I think that statute would apply to loading things and having them fall off the vehicle while it is in motion.
That 9,000lb trailer is putting 900 lbs of load on the truck. Without a WD hitch, nearly all of that 900 is going on the rear axle. With a WD it should equalize it to the front and rear axles. The front and rear of the truck should drop an equal amount when hitched up.
I think a lot these ratings from the manufacturers is one-upmanship. They can claim it tows whatever, but if you actually do it, you could be breaking laws in your state/country. And that is what I go by. If you are loaded in a safe manner, not exceeding any rating from the manufacturer or state (i.e. State of California Vehicle Code also says that the towing vehicle must exceed 4,000 lbs to tow any vehicle exceeding 6,000 lbs.) then the likelyhood of an incident is much lower. In the event of something happening, if you are within all the limits then your likelyhood of getting sued AND losing, should be greatly reduced.
Yes, there is a safety margin built into the trucks. The guys (and gals) designing the trucks need to figure this truck could be on the road for many years and need to factor in the toll that just aging of the components will have. Todays steels are MUCH stronger and last longer than those of years gone by. Everything is much stronger that it used to be. And hopefully it will last longer. But that safety margin is there and shouldn't be used. Just I'm sure that if OSHA (or your state equivelant) were to find you lifing 15,000 lbs with a sling rated at 10,000 lbs would fine your company very heavily.
Quote maddog, "Granted, if you are going to be towing at or near the truck's limit on a regular basis, you should get a bigger truck. "
I couldn't have said it better. The half ton trucks aren't designed to be abused like they are. For everyday regular loads they have no problem. But if you start running them up to their ratings they just aren't going to last. We only have F-150 here at the office for our foreman. They hate when they have to load up a pallet of wire in their trucks. They just aren't built for that kind of load. And that's something that doesn't happen all that often.
If you're going to be pulling a load around at 80% or greater than your ratings and you're doing that weekly or daily, you need to move up to a bigger truck. Granted if you are in a real commercial truck (Class IV or better) it probably won't be as much of an issue. OUt truck usually leaves the office with a load in the bed or a trailer behind it. And maybe 50% of the time comes back with a load of stuff. The higher you move in the vehicle class the more reliably you are going to pull your max load. The big rigs are built to probably 80% or 90%, maybe even 100% duty ratings. Those Kenworth, Macks, Internationals, Volvos, Peterbuilts are just designed to work 100% of the time. Afterall, if the truck is moving without a load, it's losing money.
How long would a quad last if every time you ran it you had the throttle at 80% or greater? Probably not as long as one that's used "normally." Some full on runs, then some putting around, then some cruising. Getting used all over it's capabilities.
If you walked into Big 3 Dealer (I'm using them as Toyota and Nissan don't make anything bigger than 1/2 tons) and told them that you wanted to tow 9,000 lbs on a regular basis, if at all, they wouldn't show you an F-150, Ram 1500, Silverado 1500 or Sierra 1500. They'd be showing you an F-350, RAM 3500, Silverado 3500 or Sierra 3500.
I think I've jabbered off enough. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Every single towing forum I've been in I see people recommending 80%. It's for the longevity of the truck. As an example at work we have a '94 F-Series Super Duty (now known as an F-450). We killed the first tranny at +/-65,000 miles. That was around 1999 or so. It now has a newer revision of the tranny thanks to a great service manager (and fellow quader I might add.) And I just have a huge doubt that the automatic trannies in these half-ton trucks would hold up to nearly constant full load pulling.
I believe that the reason for my calculations coming up low for towing (i.e. the 70+ lb driver for a Nissan Titan @ 9,000lb trailer) with the half tons is that they just don't have a very high GVWR. That 10% tongue weight ends up transfering to the truck and needs to be figured into the GVWR. You have to realise they rate these trucks empty with just a driver. How many people are going to be recreating, pulling a trailer with just one person. Being single, maybe I would. Also, for every pound you put in the truck, you lose 10 pounds of towing capacity (for a bumper tow trailer). Say you have 4 good sized adult men (200lbs ea...mind you they are probably a little over weight, but stats say most Americans are) that is 800 lbs of people. That's equivelent to what an 8,000 lb trailer puts onto the truck.
I'm not sure of any other state, but the State of California says that one shall not exceed any rating from the manufacturer. And that a vehicle should not be loaded in an unsafe manner and exceeding the ratings of truck, IMHO, could be construded as an unsafe loading of the vehicle. Though I think that statute would apply to loading things and having them fall off the vehicle while it is in motion.
That 9,000lb trailer is putting 900 lbs of load on the truck. Without a WD hitch, nearly all of that 900 is going on the rear axle. With a WD it should equalize it to the front and rear axles. The front and rear of the truck should drop an equal amount when hitched up.
I think a lot these ratings from the manufacturers is one-upmanship. They can claim it tows whatever, but if you actually do it, you could be breaking laws in your state/country. And that is what I go by. If you are loaded in a safe manner, not exceeding any rating from the manufacturer or state (i.e. State of California Vehicle Code also says that the towing vehicle must exceed 4,000 lbs to tow any vehicle exceeding 6,000 lbs.) then the likelyhood of an incident is much lower. In the event of something happening, if you are within all the limits then your likelyhood of getting sued AND losing, should be greatly reduced.
Yes, there is a safety margin built into the trucks. The guys (and gals) designing the trucks need to figure this truck could be on the road for many years and need to factor in the toll that just aging of the components will have. Todays steels are MUCH stronger and last longer than those of years gone by. Everything is much stronger that it used to be. And hopefully it will last longer. But that safety margin is there and shouldn't be used. Just I'm sure that if OSHA (or your state equivelant) were to find you lifing 15,000 lbs with a sling rated at 10,000 lbs would fine your company very heavily.
Quote maddog, "Granted, if you are going to be towing at or near the truck's limit on a regular basis, you should get a bigger truck. "
I couldn't have said it better. The half ton trucks aren't designed to be abused like they are. For everyday regular loads they have no problem. But if you start running them up to their ratings they just aren't going to last. We only have F-150 here at the office for our foreman. They hate when they have to load up a pallet of wire in their trucks. They just aren't built for that kind of load. And that's something that doesn't happen all that often.
If you're going to be pulling a load around at 80% or greater than your ratings and you're doing that weekly or daily, you need to move up to a bigger truck. Granted if you are in a real commercial truck (Class IV or better) it probably won't be as much of an issue. OUt truck usually leaves the office with a load in the bed or a trailer behind it. And maybe 50% of the time comes back with a load of stuff. The higher you move in the vehicle class the more reliably you are going to pull your max load. The big rigs are built to probably 80% or 90%, maybe even 100% duty ratings. Those Kenworth, Macks, Internationals, Volvos, Peterbuilts are just designed to work 100% of the time. Afterall, if the truck is moving without a load, it's losing money.
How long would a quad last if every time you ran it you had the throttle at 80% or greater? Probably not as long as one that's used "normally." Some full on runs, then some putting around, then some cruising. Getting used all over it's capabilities.
If you walked into Big 3 Dealer (I'm using them as Toyota and Nissan don't make anything bigger than 1/2 tons) and told them that you wanted to tow 9,000 lbs on a regular basis, if at all, they wouldn't show you an F-150, Ram 1500, Silverado 1500 or Sierra 1500. They'd be showing you an F-350, RAM 3500, Silverado 3500 or Sierra 3500.
I think I've jabbered off enough. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Sep 29, 2004 | 03:01 AM
#4
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
I think I've jabbered off enough.
Sep 29, 2004 | 03:53 AM
#5
Quad Patrol
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
Hey guys, He really is a stickler for his name being spelled correctly[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Posted by BlackandRedWarrior "I'm not sure of any other state, but the State of California says that one shall not exceed any rating from the manufacturer. And that a vehicle should not be loaded in an unsafe manner and exceeding the ratings of truck, IMHO, could be construded as an unsafe loading of the vehicle. Though I think that statute would apply to loading things and having them fall off the vehicle while it is in motion."
You are so correct B&R[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Go easy on them B&R[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Posted by BlackandRedWarrior "I'm not sure of any other state, but the State of California says that one shall not exceed any rating from the manufacturer. And that a vehicle should not be loaded in an unsafe manner and exceeding the ratings of truck, IMHO, could be construded as an unsafe loading of the vehicle. Though I think that statute would apply to loading things and having them fall off the vehicle while it is in motion."
You are so correct B&R[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Go easy on them B&R[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Sep 29, 2004 | 10:49 AM
#6
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
WOW!!! my bad Sorry[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]
As I was writing it I was thinking, what year was the black & white Warrior Anyway?................
So the 80% rule is as I suspected just for reliability and longevity. Also the trucks "numbers" need to be fully evaluated and not taken at face value.
Your statement about the sling is true but that 10,000 sling is designed to lift that weight everyday with proper use and care for a long period of time.
I guess that I'm looking at it from a different point of view. Where I work I build industrial gearboxes for chemical processing some of the gearboxes are large, they weigh 10 ton and have 1500hp motors. This gearbox is designed and guaranteed to run at full load 24/7/365 for the 3 year warranty period (with proper maintenance). Most customers do not operate this way just as most truck users do not but thats where I'm coming from.
The instruction I get from the manual is I should be able to operate my truck at the rated full load everyday with proper maintenance for the life of the warranty without fear of it breaking. They are no phrases or exceptions that say you should or can only haul the full load once a week or month.
Now, real world experience says no way and most people would not subject their truck to 100% full load all the time, they would up grade. But if all I expected was the truck to last the life of the warranty period why not?
As I was writing it I was thinking, what year was the black & white Warrior Anyway?................
So the 80% rule is as I suspected just for reliability and longevity. Also the trucks "numbers" need to be fully evaluated and not taken at face value.
Your statement about the sling is true but that 10,000 sling is designed to lift that weight everyday with proper use and care for a long period of time.
I guess that I'm looking at it from a different point of view. Where I work I build industrial gearboxes for chemical processing some of the gearboxes are large, they weigh 10 ton and have 1500hp motors. This gearbox is designed and guaranteed to run at full load 24/7/365 for the 3 year warranty period (with proper maintenance). Most customers do not operate this way just as most truck users do not but thats where I'm coming from.
The instruction I get from the manual is I should be able to operate my truck at the rated full load everyday with proper maintenance for the life of the warranty without fear of it breaking. They are no phrases or exceptions that say you should or can only haul the full load once a week or month.
Now, real world experience says no way and most people would not subject their truck to 100% full load all the time, they would up grade. But if all I expected was the truck to last the life of the warranty period why not?
Sep 29, 2004 | 12:48 PM
#7
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
Lasting the life of the warranty is one thing...that's only what...3 years or 36,000 miles? How many people would be royally tweaked if their trucks fell apart at 36,000 miles? I know I would. I know Ford will cover some power train components on some vehicles out to 100,000 miles. (I.e. they replaced a head on my boss's Lightning when he blew a spark plug.)
Industrial equipment and light duty pickups are 2 different ball games. I work for an electrical contractor here in CA so I know what you mean about ratings. I have a feeling if you carried 80% of the weight these trucks are rated at 7 days a week you'd kill the springs/shocks in short order. Let alone the tranny and/or motor. I'm not sure for a fact, but I'd hazard a guess that the Warranty on most of these trucks has a clause that they are only covered for Non-commercial use. If you use them commercially then it probably drops down to a 1 year Warranty. But I could be wrong. Have been before.
Of course about 80% of light duty trucks probably never come close to hitting their capacities as people just don't use them for any heavy lifting.
Of course Karyn had to pop in here. Hehehe. No problem Karyn. I'm always giving you grief. It's only cause I like you. If I didn't, I'd just ignore ya. LOL. Now get a skid plate would yah?
I'll never go easy on em! Muhahahahaha. Give me a badge and a set of scales and they will fear me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] I think a LOT of people in the RVing world really need to be educated on things. It's not that they are stupid, dumb, etc. They just honestly don't know. The RV dealers never say, "Well, ya know, that 38' toy box just really is too big to be towed by that truck you have." They just offer to slap a hitch on, take your check and send you on your way.
No problem Easter. I've been called worse....by my own mother.
Umm, I wasn't into riding then, but I think either '01 or '02.
If you have one of the 1/2 tons, take a look at your Warranty and see what it says about commercial uses.
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Industrial equipment and light duty pickups are 2 different ball games. I work for an electrical contractor here in CA so I know what you mean about ratings. I have a feeling if you carried 80% of the weight these trucks are rated at 7 days a week you'd kill the springs/shocks in short order. Let alone the tranny and/or motor. I'm not sure for a fact, but I'd hazard a guess that the Warranty on most of these trucks has a clause that they are only covered for Non-commercial use. If you use them commercially then it probably drops down to a 1 year Warranty. But I could be wrong. Have been before.
Of course about 80% of light duty trucks probably never come close to hitting their capacities as people just don't use them for any heavy lifting.
Of course Karyn had to pop in here. Hehehe. No problem Karyn. I'm always giving you grief. It's only cause I like you. If I didn't, I'd just ignore ya. LOL. Now get a skid plate would yah?
I'll never go easy on em! Muhahahahaha. Give me a badge and a set of scales and they will fear me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] I think a LOT of people in the RVing world really need to be educated on things. It's not that they are stupid, dumb, etc. They just honestly don't know. The RV dealers never say, "Well, ya know, that 38' toy box just really is too big to be towed by that truck you have." They just offer to slap a hitch on, take your check and send you on your way.
No problem Easter. I've been called worse....by my own mother.
Umm, I wasn't into riding then, but I think either '01 or '02.
If you have one of the 1/2 tons, take a look at your Warranty and see what it says about commercial uses.
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Sep 29, 2004 | 05:52 PM
#8
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
Tow ratings and gvwr's are two different things. You can't necessarily max both out at the same time and get reasonable numbers for cargo capacity. All the manufacturer is saying is that their truck can tow this amount of weight. They also say that the truck has this specific gvwr. They are related, but the numbers arent dependant on each other.
When is the last time you fit two 200 pound men into the extended cab of a 1/2 ton pickup? I'm 5'11" and 175 pounds and I cant ride there for more than an hour without cramping up and going crazy from claustrophobia. Crew cab 1/2 tons are a different story, but I wont get into that here. They arent real trucks though...
Take for instance a pop up camper. One with a dry weight of about 2000 pounds has a hitch weight of 200. I assume this is what you mean by the 10% rule. This does hold true for most trailers. A 32' travel trailer weighing 4900 pounds has about 400-500 pounds on the hitch. All of these of course depend on design. The oem bumper is rated for 500 pounds of tongue weight, so here we hit our first obstacle. But, at this point we start to get into another aspect of towing...
I have a 24' enclosed trailer that weights about 6000-6500 pounds loaded with a few atvs. Now you stated your claim w/o a w/d hitch. Unfortunately, you cant haul much more than that kind of weight without a swaybar and a weight distributing hitch. In all reality, I probably should have both on this trailer as it is not that stable at higher speeds. While a portion of the trailer weight will always be on the hitch, once you increase beyond this weight range, you will be putting most of the tongue weight back on the rear trailer axles. Therefore your gvwr of the pickup is not affected beyond this point.
A half ton truck really isnt a half ton anymore if you exceed that number for its payload capacity. Also, you will make sacrafices on ride quality and basically have a 3/4 ton under the exterior. While these tow ratings are getting out of hand as of late, (thanks dodge), there is still a speck or two of truth behind them. Otherwise, Nissan and the other truck makers will be knee deep in lawsuits very soon.
Regardless, there is a simple rule for pickups. Buy a truck that will meet and slightly exceed your needs so that when that situation comes, you will have the capacity to take care of it.
When is the last time you fit two 200 pound men into the extended cab of a 1/2 ton pickup? I'm 5'11" and 175 pounds and I cant ride there for more than an hour without cramping up and going crazy from claustrophobia. Crew cab 1/2 tons are a different story, but I wont get into that here. They arent real trucks though...
Take for instance a pop up camper. One with a dry weight of about 2000 pounds has a hitch weight of 200. I assume this is what you mean by the 10% rule. This does hold true for most trailers. A 32' travel trailer weighing 4900 pounds has about 400-500 pounds on the hitch. All of these of course depend on design. The oem bumper is rated for 500 pounds of tongue weight, so here we hit our first obstacle. But, at this point we start to get into another aspect of towing...
I have a 24' enclosed trailer that weights about 6000-6500 pounds loaded with a few atvs. Now you stated your claim w/o a w/d hitch. Unfortunately, you cant haul much more than that kind of weight without a swaybar and a weight distributing hitch. In all reality, I probably should have both on this trailer as it is not that stable at higher speeds. While a portion of the trailer weight will always be on the hitch, once you increase beyond this weight range, you will be putting most of the tongue weight back on the rear trailer axles. Therefore your gvwr of the pickup is not affected beyond this point.
A half ton truck really isnt a half ton anymore if you exceed that number for its payload capacity. Also, you will make sacrafices on ride quality and basically have a 3/4 ton under the exterior. While these tow ratings are getting out of hand as of late, (thanks dodge), there is still a speck or two of truth behind them. Otherwise, Nissan and the other truck makers will be knee deep in lawsuits very soon.
Regardless, there is a simple rule for pickups. Buy a truck that will meet and slightly exceed your needs so that when that situation comes, you will have the capacity to take care of it.
Sep 29, 2004 | 07:53 PM
#9
Air Cooled Rider
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Blackandwhitewarrior and others curious???
Originally posted by: maddog56
Tow ratings and gvwr's are two different things. You can't necessarily max both out at the same time and get reasonable numbers for cargo capacity. All the manufacturer is saying is that their truck can tow this amount of weight. They also say that the truck has this specific gvwr. They are related, but the numbers arent dependant on each other.
Tow ratings and gvwr's are two different things. You can't necessarily max both out at the same time and get reasonable numbers for cargo capacity. All the manufacturer is saying is that their truck can tow this amount of weight. They also say that the truck has this specific gvwr. They are related, but the numbers arent dependant on each other.
My work truck has these ratings:
GVWR = 4900
Front GAWR = 2500
Rear GAWR = 2700
GCWR is unknown and GMC is being a b1tch about giving me any info.
Taking out the curb weight from the 4900 GVWR leaves 1729 lbs for payload which would have to be distributed appropriately to the invidual axles. One of these days I'm going to go weigh this truck to see where it is empty (well with me anyways.)
4.3L V6
700R4 (I think that's the right number)
3.23 diff (obviously that limits it's abilities, but makes 20MPG attainable on the higway.)
When is the last time you fit two 200 pound men into the extended cab of a 1/2 ton pickup? I'm 5'11" and 175 pounds and I cant ride there for more than an hour without cramping up and going crazy from claustrophobia. Crew cab 1/2 tons are a different story, but I wont get into that here. They arent real trucks though...
Take for instance a pop up camper. One with a dry weight of about 2000 pounds has a hitch weight of 200. I assume this is what you mean by the 10% rule.
This does hold true for most trailers. A 32' travel trailer weighing 4900 pounds has about 400-500 pounds on the hitch. All of these of course depend on design. The oem bumper is rated for 500 pounds of tongue weight, so here we hit our first obstacle. But, at this point we start to get into another aspect of towing...
I have a 24' enclosed trailer that weights about 6000-6500 pounds loaded with a few atvs. Now you stated your claim w/o a w/d hitch. Unfortunately, you cant haul much more than that kind of weight without a swaybar and a weight distributing hitch. In all reality, I probably should have both on this trailer as it is not that stable at higher speeds. While a portion of the trailer weight will always be on the hitch, once you increase beyond this weight range, you will be putting most of the tongue weight back on the rear trailer axles. Therefore your gvwr of the pickup is not affected beyond this point.
The only way to transfer weight to the rear wheels is to load it with more weight to the back. Trailers should be loaded with 60% in front of the axle centerline (the midpoint between the axles on tandem axle trailers or above the center axle on tripple axle trailers) and 40% behind. Or you could carry the trailer hitch high which is also not recommended. The trailer properly loaded and with a weight distribution hitch should sit level as should the truck. Though we have a hydraulic trailer that we have to do this with (on recomendation of the manuf.) as it sways badly. Especially when empty. We use a 12" raised pintle hitch on 2wd 97-later F-150 to get it high enough. It's stable to 55MPH, but gets squirely at 60.
A half ton truck really isnt a half ton anymore if you exceed that number for its payload capacity. Also, you will make sacrafices on ride quality and basically have a 3/4 ton under the exterior. While these tow ratings are getting out of hand as of late, (thanks dodge), there is still a speck or two of truth behind them. Otherwise, Nissan and the other truck makers will be knee deep in lawsuits very soon.
Regardless, there is a simple rule for pickups. Buy a truck that will meet and slightly exceed your needs so that when that situation comes, you will have the capacity to take care of it.
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