It does takes a level of skill and awareness to downshift quickly and at the right moment but if done correctly, it can make a big difference

 

People just don't like to shift anymore. Most would give up a little bit of performance to just be able to put the machine in gear and go. That's why the engines have to keep getting bigger and more powerful, because there are parasitic losses due to a cvt. Give any cvt machine enough power and the losses don't seem to matter. As far as downshifting at the right moment to gain power, very few want to do that either. I think the Honda transmission is a great design but because Honda never spent the money developing and perfecting ANY cvt transmission, they could put a ton of money into designing and building this transmission and justify it. Yamaha, Arctic Cat, Kawasaki, and Polaris don't even build 4x4 quads without cvt systems. They would have to first design and then test and build something totally different from what they have already been using. The cost would just be too great and their customers want to keep their cvt transmissions as well. Honda customers are more open to the idea of actually manually shifting a side by side. Basically what I'm saying is that I believe this idea will work for Honda but would be a financial flop for anyone else.

 

I hope Honda is successful with the new pioneer. Price is going to be a huge factor. They really need to deliver this thing significantly cheaper than the big guns from everyone else.

Also I just can't wrap my head around people that don't want to shift, more so when you can't even stall it if you screw up. Ripping through the gears cleanses the soul. Don't believe me? You gotta try it.

Yamaha I have full faith will bring a competitive machine to market. I will just be dissapointed if it is an under 1000lb model, cause I can't afford to by another one right now.

 

Why they have been building 120-150hp CVT snowmobiles for years like everyone else.
They may use one of their street bike motors or PWC , sled motors but I imagine they know most people do not want to be bother with shifting gears so a CVT will likely still be used.

Its not like a CVY can,t handle it . My Ski-doo 800R e-tec is rated at 165hp stock. It sure would suck having to shift gears with that.

 

Sleds utilize CVTs because with all the added drag of a track and deep powder, it would lose all momentum entirely too fast when letting off the gas to shift. I imagine it would be extremly clunky also. I would never dispute the need of a cvt in a sled, but in a racing class UTV which is essentually a mini sand rail, I think a manual would be beneficial.

 

I think if I ever bought a new side by side, the Honda Pioneer 1000 would be pretty high on my list as well. I don't even care if its not as fast as a RZR1000 or Maverick 1000 turbo. It will be running long after either of those have been scrapped. The same goes for anything else, including Yamaha, they still have some work to do to catch up with Honda on reliability. 77 hp in the Pioneer 1000 with a more efficient gear on gear transmission will feel more like close to 100 hp with a cvt. That's still pretty powerful, should easily top 70 mph.

 

I just when on a 100 mile rough bush trail ride Saturday with my SP500 and a 570 Sportsman,500 Rubicon and a foot shift 350 Rancher. We all traded ATVs for awhile and the foot shifting thing of the Rancher got tedious very quickly we all agreed.
The guy with the Rubicon just left it in auto for the whole ride.

 

Lol, do you not use turn signals when you drive either? That small flick of the wrist gets me mighty tired around town.

 

The new Pioneer transmission is still an auto for the most part. It does allow manual shifting if you want it, just like the Rubicon. The dual-clutch setup is claimed to be quicker and better at shifting than a human can be. If I bought something with a transmission like that, fully auto mode would be used most of the time. On slower speed trails though, I can see the advantage of being able to hold a lower gear to keep rpms up. On cvt auto machines, you can do this by shifting into low range. But you have to come to a complete stop to shift back into high range if the pace picks up. Sometimes you get to situations where you're kind of in the middle. Its too slow for high range and too fast for low range. On a dual-clutch auto with manual option you would just be shifting from probably 2nd to 3rd gear on the fly instead. It is more work I guess but you are better able to match the engine rpms to get the best performance at any speed. Or simply run a gear higher to reduce rpms and increase fuel economy on easier trails where the extra power isn't needed.

 

I had a 450 Foreman ES for a short while , I never understood how shifting with your thumb was any better then with your foot.
It's only advantage was you could ride it sandals and change gears in seat high water without getting a soaker in you boot.