The sprockets are the final drive and in NO way are related to the ratios in the transmission. Sprockets change the rpm the same in first gear as they do in fifth. If you gain 4mph in 5th at the rev limiter then you gain 4mph in 1st gear at the rev limiter. Also I have been racing street bikes to long not to know that gearing a bike taller will make it less wheelie prone...cure it?
No, but it will help. If you dont believe me put an 11 tooth on it and see if it doesnt come up easier than with a 14 tooth. Go from a 2.73 gear to a 4.56 gear in a car and see if it doesnt launch harder; its common sense.

 

Digs,

I'd have to agree with you about MPH gains in each gear, since I've never tested or raced manual transmissions, especially in cars. But the logrythmic increase between gears would be the gear spacing itself, since there is obviously "different" ratios between each gear, and on the raptor they're "obviously" not linear, or equally spaced. That's the only professional criticism I've seen on the bike. I even agree with you about the car differential ratios. My only point is that even in a car you must consider amount of power and where its located in the power band when considering gear size (that would obviously be a differential in a car and sprockets on a bike--in automatics refined with torque converter changes/clutch slip on a manual), tire size, weight, etc. Besides who tells us that it's a low gear or a high gear? It's based on lessons learned from our immediate need to experiment and modify. So that being given, roll-on wheelies on a raptor "may" be easier due to where in the power-band the engine stays longer. You'd have to agree, that if you get too low in final drive gearing, that the effects will become less apparent due to acceleration rate of engine compared to increase in final drive. (It'd blow through the power band!) I've tried different sprockets, and an 11t I'm sure reaches the torque band faster, but it also revs out faster, obviously. I've found that with a 14t, the engine stays in peak torque band longer and therefore increases chance of front end coming/staying up longer. For what I do in loose sand, I'm afraid that an 11t would cost me too much top end, (currently I use a 12t) but if my motor had enough power mods, then it would be able to pull a 14t in the same conditions and faster overall. All things given, I understand what you're saying, but as a racer yourself, you know there's more to it! I have a blown big-block Z-28 that I have won multiple radial tire events with, and I can tell you that with all the torque it makes, it'll tote the tires longer in same gear (first) with higher gear 4.11 than it will with 4.56s (there's enough power : weight to do that. The same car with less power would obviously not! From my testing of the 14t, the Raptor did not hit redline in 5th gear. Not saying it wouldn't but it sure was slow increasing rpm past that point. RPMs vs. Power! Consider it all! Later.

 

Sometimes one has to put it in extreme terms for some people to understand and here goes: Does your front end come up easer from a roll in first gear or in 3rd??? 1st gear of course. This is because 1st gear is geared lower. Same goes for changing sprockets. It WILL come up easier with a smaller tooth sprocket on the front..no doubt..been there done that hundreds of times.Now,
with that being said; yes you can keep the front up longer once you get it up because it is gear taller causing it to take longer to run through the gear of choice. I am not sure why your not satisfied with the logrythmic transmission pattern since every vehicle transmission I've ever seen has the "logrythmic" gear pattern. There is always a bigger gap between first and second than there is the other gears. The reason is because your not accellerating as fast in the upper gears as you are in the lower gears therefore you need closer ratios in the upper gears. Heres an example from the manual under "Gear ratio"
1st gear............2.428
2nd gear............1.526
3rd gear............1.238
4th gear............1.047
5th gear............ .904

See how the ratios get closer in the upper gears?
Heres my 2000 Suzuki Hayabusa specs:

1st gear............2.615
2nd gear............1.937
3rd gear............1.526
4th gear............1.285
5th gear............1.136
6th gear............1.043

See them getting closer again?? Car transmissions are the same too. I have been an avid drag racer for 14 years now racing cars and bikes. First of all I have never ever heard of a "Radial" tire competition..."Street legal tire" competition yes.
Also, I may have misunderstood but I hope your not saying your toting the front wheels with radial tires because unless you got the motor in the trunk it is might near impossible. If that was with some stickys then yes with a taller gear if you get the front up you can carry it longer.
Also the ideal gearing for a drag car is one that puts the engine about 500-1000 rpm over the engines HP. peak in the last gear when crossing the finish line. This is not true for a car used on the street where the gains of going with a lower gear are too minimal to risk streetability.
Yes a gear helps some vehicles more than others like I said in my other posts but suggesting that it depends on where the torque comes in more than the gear is ridiculous. You cant blow through the torque..with a lower gear if you shift it at the right point (500 rpm above the Hp.peak)You will stay closer to where the power is and therefore run faster. You hit the same torque with any gear you run. Again is it easier to power wheelie in 1st or 3rd?? I know its not as drastic as that but to say gearing a bike taller will make it wheelie easier just doesnt hold any water with me..I have experienced it. See ya later

 

Digs,

Once again, your extreme desire to be right has closed your mind; I'm outta this conversation as it's a lost cause! I understand everything you had to say, unfortunately you don't understand others; Don't be so critical, and if you don't know what you're talking about, keep it to yourself...Drag Radials pull the front end just fine at the track; not totally consistant and that's the trick to the class, DON'T OVERPOWER!!!!

 

Raptorup,
I dont have a problem being wrong and will be the first to admit it. Its just that there is nothing about drag racing that you could tell me that I dont already know. 14years experience. I have pictures,videos,timeslips,nitrous burned pistons,etc... I would be glad to post some of these if you would like to see them. I would love to see a picture of you pulling the wheels with a set of drag radials on a car. I am sure everyone else in the world would too since its probably never happened any other time in the history of the world. I have run the drag radials with a fine tuned suspension and they suck. They are just a radial tire without the tread in the middle the sidewalls do not flex like with a tube type slick or DOT tire. I was merely trying to help this guy out when you stepped in trying to flaunt your "intelligence" by talking about linear and logrythmic gear ratios. You know almost anyone here hasn't a clue to what you were talking about.
And I think I suprised you by knowing all about logrythms. I have posted real life situations that I KNOW are FACT. I have also posted numbers to prove my point. All you have done is spouted out nonsense even though you were right about transmission gear ratios being logrythmic. Its just that well, whats your point, all transmission gear ratios are logrythmic in nature.
All I can say to those REALLY concerned about the 14 tooth sprocket is try it and see if I lied.
I also would like to appologize to anyone whom I bored with all this number mumbo jumbo. I was just stating facts.

 

digs you are wrong and raptorup is right.if drag radial are crap then how did the school of automotive machinist team out of texas run 9.90's with a 86 monte carlo SS (about 3600lbs.) on 275/60/15 drag radials? also if you change the final drive ratio it changes every gear in the tranny proportionatly. i'm not going to do the math here but if you take a 1st gear of 6:1 and a 2nd of 5:1 change the final drive say 4:1 20% then you chage 1st from 30:1 and 2nd 20:1 to 36:1 and 24:1 respectivly. not 36:1 and 26:1 so changing the final drive ratio does effectivly change the gear spacing. if you would like to argue the point futher i must assume you ride a blaster. myself i currently own a 250r (which i race cross country)a raptor, banshee(for sale) and a '96 yz250. hope i didn't make you mad you just need to open your mind, which makes you more intelligent not ingorant.

 

I too am not trying to get into this conversation cause I see it is a lost cause. But, a little bit of info about drag radials. There are classes dedicated to racing with drag radials, and the cars DO pull the front end off the ground, and the cars DO occasionaly run in the high 9's. It's a proven fact, and I have seen it happen, and I have it on video. If you don't believe me, go to Stangnet, or any other Mustang website and check it out, you will see....and believe. lol There is a guy from NJ, who is running a turbo on his Stang, with drag radials, and he pulls his skinnies probably 3 to 4 feet off the ground on launch and he runs the high 9's. Seen it done. Later

 

and
Digs,
I think your above two statements have shown everyone on this board how little you really do know. My dad once told me that "it's better to let people think that you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." I think this is very applicable advice!

While it is true that a sprocket change won't affect what RPM the rev limiter kicks in at, to say that the mph gain would be the same in first as in fifth is, well, just retarded. Think about it for a moment. Let's say, for example only, that 1st gear will hit 30 mph and 5th gear will hit 70 mph. If you were to change sprockets so that you were able to raise the final ratio by 30%, then 1st gear would go 30% faster, meaning that in theory, it would go 39 mph in 1st. The same would apply to 5th gear, just multiply it by 30% and in theory, if the engine would pull it, it would run 30% faster, or 91 MPH. Surely you can see that a gain of 9 mph is not the same as a gain of 21 mph.

Also, it is very possible that gearing higher would allow you to pull up the front wheels easier in certain situations. If you were to gear the raptor low enough, it would wind out in 1st gear in a very short distance, possibly even short enough that there would not be sufficient amount of wheel rotation to ever get the front end picked up before it was time to shift. Take a truck for instance, often times, given enough power, it will spin it's wheels much longer in high gear than in low range. The reason for this is because in extremely low gears, even though the torque is dramatically multiplied, there is not enough tire speed to sustain a spin and instead, the truck catches up to its tire speed.

I'd also be willing to bet that some of the guys on here with utility bikes with extremely low 1st gears can pull a wheelie easier in 2nd than in 1st because 1st gear just grunts and it's time to change, never even rotating the wheels enough to loft the front end more than a few inches.

Sorry for such an inflamatory post, but it goes against my grain to see people who know a little, but thinking they know it all! What a dufus!

 

I sat down and did some math on the ratios and I WAS incorrect in saying that it would be 4mph in first and in fifth.My apologies for not seeing that point. See I admit when I am wrong. Raptorup agreed with me on that point so I guess I even confused him with that statement. I thought I might be wrong about the drag radials after seeing the above posts and I may be still but I checked with everyone I know that drag races(lots of people) and no one here has ever heard of this class. Are you sure you guys arent getting this confused with DOT street legal tires??? Someone give me the phone number to a NHRA track where this occurs and I will gladly call and confirm it and admit I am wrong if it checks out. A website would work too. It just doesnt happen around here.
I talked to some of my friends that drag race professionally and told them about pulling the front wheels with some drag radials and they all busted out laughing. This is impressive if these guys are pulling the wheels with these tires. Trust me they are just radials with less tread.
I still dont see the point of being critical of a bike transmission that does not have linear gear ratios.....no transmissions do...this is because of symple physics...you are accelerating faster in the lower gears thus it doesnt hurt you as much to have a wider ratio. However, now that you guys explained what Raptorup was trying to say at first I see a little of what he was saying about a sprocket not affecting the lower gears as much as the upper ones. I just didnt understand the way he was putting it and my appologies to Raptorup for that.
Now for saying that gearing taller makes the front end loft easier....I will NEVER agree with that. I have tried it and if you try it you will agree. Keep in mind that I am talking about a drag race situation where you have slipped the clutch and are now acelerating in 1st and as the rpms start to climb the front end comes up. If you gear it lower it WILL come up sooner,faster,and easier. Do you know how low you would have to gear it to just "grunt"and not have time to lift the front. I doubt you could make a sprocket change to make it that low. Point is the smaller sprocket increases the leverage that pulls the front end up. A larger one decreases it.
Bash,
Whats with the name calling...did I call names or disrespect anyone?? No I was just trying to help this guy. People get so brave when they are behind a computer.
With all this being said...I have enjoyed the debate and did learn a little about the differences in mph with sprocket change. I was checking mine at 60mph on my bike and never really thought about it. I will have to refigure this and see how much it is really hurting my topend. I will also try to figure top speed of the raptor using some formulas I have. Only thing is they dont involve tire growth. How much would you guys say the tire grows on an atv..approximate..I am guessing maybe 2inches max.
Any ideas??
Sorry for coming off looking like and a$$hole but sometimes on the computer you cant see the facial expressions of here the tone of the person which would let you know it wasnt said in a smarta$$ fashion.
Everyone have a nice day!

Digs

 

WOW!!! some good reading here!!! I am faily sure NMCA has a class for radial tires along with there other street legal tire classes, i have lost there web address and its a pain in the a$$ to find!!! I,m sure if you look in Hot Rod or Super Chevy you will see an add for BF Goodrich that has a car pulling the wheels with there radials!! I have also seen this done at some NMCA and Super Chevy shows and was Quit surprised as i had the same impression as digs did about these tires!!
Probly 2in growth is a safe bet or maybe more with the radials that the raptor has on it being very flexible!! Keep up the good debates



01 Raptor Blue
87 Quadracer 500