Awesome post 3cross....Makes for great reading. Hope to hear some more like this in the future. Take care.

-Josh

 

My twnety-five cents worth (Inflation!).

I think I have to disagree with the people saying top speed is important or even worhtwhile. You may feel like the King **** if you know that you can go 85mph+ or something, but is it really usefull? How long does it take you to hit 85 or for that matter, how good can that be for the engine?

I have a Banshee with some slight mods on it. I think I could get the thing to 90mph. Ever hear of "Gearing"? Just slap on a 17 tooth front sprocket, balloon rubber, and hope it still hits the rev limit or even better, the height of the powerband.

Guess I am just saying that it's not really the top speed, but the ACCELERATION!!! Acceleration is the only usefull performance mearurement worthwile to Sport ATVers, besides traction and handling.

Acceeleration is the king of excitement!!

 

For sure top speed matters, as well as acceleration. When we go riding there are lots of dirt roads that we take to get from one trail to another, or to go from pit to pit. I would hate nothing more than to have the slowest quad when there's 4 or 5 of us blasting to the next pit, especially in the summer when the dust is really bad.

Anyone who thinks that top speed is not important either always rides be themselves, or is trying to justify having a quad that's slower than everyone elses. Or there one of the people who put mud tires on and now they can't open it up.

 

<< You may feel like the King **** if you know that you can go 85mph+ or something, but is it really usefull? How long does it take you to hit 85 or for that matter, how good can that be for the engine? >>



I may be wrong, but tire speed shouldn't have an affect on engine reliability. I mean does it matter if you are taching 9000 in first gear going 20mph or 9000 in 6th gear going 80 (just making those numbers up). Like I said, I may be wrong.



<< Ever hear of &quot;Gearing&quot;? Just slap on a 17 tooth front sprocket, balloon rubber, and hope it still hits the rev limit or even better, the height of the powerband. >>



Good point, but nobody is arguing that top speed is more important than acceleration. It's a combination of the two. For those who race MX then maybe top speed is irrelevant, but how many of us strictly race MX? I know in my case we use both top speed and acceleration. When we are in the tighter spots we only hit like 3rd gear so you'd better have good acceleration if you want to keep up. However, when we get on our dirt roads or open spots you better have decent top speed or you'll be left in he dust. For instance, my Polaris could easily keep up with any quad that I ride with regularly (fastest being a Banshee) in the slower going stuff where it's just acceleration that matters. However, when we got out on the roads the Banshee ate it alive. Sure, I was faster than the 300ex's and Warrior's, but I could not keep up with the Banshee because of TOP SPEED. This may not be important for some people, but this happens EVERY RIDE we go on. So to go on to say that either acceleration or top speed isn't important is wrong because a lot of people ride in a lot of different situations. For me, they are equally important.

Now to show what I mean take a look at 3cross's post above. You can see that &quot;BansheeA&quot; had the highest top speed, where as &quot;RaptorA&quot; has the quickest acceleration. Now take a look at the track times...&quot;BansheeA&quot; was faster than &quot;RaptorA&quot;. So in that case the slower accelerating quad finished first. However you can say the same thing when you compare the DS650 to either &quot;RaptorA&quot; or the 400ex. In that situation the higher top speed quad fell victim to the faster accelerating quads. So it's not one factor or the other in most situations. It's a combination of the two.

-Josh

 

You see...I'm not used to the rules that may apply in the desert...But the town I ride in, that is legal for atv's has a speed limit.... I can't just go blsting from pit to pit at 80mph. DEC would have a field day with me.
There are a couple of stretches that allow for a good amount of speed.. But they are few and far between.

 

I think I may have mistated my post a little bit. I do believe acceleration is more important than top speed, but top speed does have its place. I agree that it is a combonation of both. In essence though, they are both derived from the same place,... horsepower and torque. I can make my wheeler accelerate quickly or have top end speed. It is simple to attain either. It's dependant upon one thing, how it is geared.

Piranha, when it comes to the statement I made about being damaging to the engine, I still stick to that. Do you ever keep the throttle pinned going 20mph in second gear on your Banshee for a sustained period of time??? Exactly!, never! It will blow real quick. In order to achieve top speed when geared real high, you have to keep it at high revs for a long period of time. The engine revs continue to climb until you have hit the rev limit. When it is geared high, it becomes much harder to achieve the 9000 rpm (guestamite). Your engine will be above 8000rpm for an extended period of time, just as if you have the throttle pinned in second.

A great example of this can be seen in NASCAR. They use different engines between Qualifing and Race. The qualifing engine is built to put out more ponies (higher revs)than the race engine. The race engine is built to withstand high revs for a longer period of time. Most ATV's are built like the qualifier engines,...most, not all. The same goes for gearing. They use the same engines for the .5 mile tracks with speeds around 90mph as they do at the 2.5 mile tracks hitting speeds near 220mph. This NASCAR thing may be a bad example, but I think it does get my point across.

The original post topic was the importance of top speed. In my opinion, top speed is not the goal, rather a benefit from having a powerfull quad.

 

<< The original post topic was the importance of top speed. In my opinion, top speed is not the goal, rather a benefit from having a powerfull quad. >>



I agree 100%...you couldn't have summed it up better than that. The reason for my responses is to state that top speed is important to some people. If I would have thought of it, I would have just said exactly what you just did.

-Josh

 

Yamahagye, you're correct to a point. Remember that everybody rides in different conditions. Me, I live in WY and am 100% street legal and regularly ride at high speeds (65 to 80+) on the roads. Also, speed is a general measure of power so it does mean something... taht's why we ride Banshees, Raptors and Quadzillas.

3cross, that was the best post I EVER read on these forums.

hak231, actually if you ever rode Sand Mountain in Utah you keep the throttle pinned in 2nd/3rd with the engine screaming for the full 1/4 mile to the top... Trust me, it's a long time and it seems as though your going to grenade your engine but it doesn't (on Banshees at least).


Long story short; just because top speed isn't important to somebody who rides trails mostly it is important to others who ride different conditions.

 

I appreciate the comments about what I wrote in the previous article, Maybe I'll work for Atvconnection!

HINT HINT!!! Kidding.

I don't mind posting what really happens, The &quot;My MACHINE BETTER THAN YOURS&quot; syndrome.
Is not a factor with me. Yeah they have some machines that are quicker and faster, Some of those guys are way better riders! Some Mod's, some stock, and alot of guys are more technical oriented!

ONE COMMON FACTOR!! Even After the races and wins and losses, after a good days ride, Nobodys hurt, Machines still fully operational, Made some New friends, and above all.

BIG FREAKIN SMILES ALL THE WAY AROUND!

After thanksgiving, I am going to do a post similiar on machines in Sand drag, Uphill comp, and of course the sand course including Jumping a dune!!
If the guys are willing we may do a distance jump competition.
Not sure on this yet though.

I know the guys that were with me are regulars on this site. Contact me again we'll tear up some dunes, and or a good trail ride!!

If anybody else wants to hook up for some FAIR, NONJUDGEMENTAL competition, Or just doing some trail blazing.
Email me.
Anybody's welcome!!

One Last thing little story!

I'm not a mushy guy but it does touch the heart to see a family camping, out enjoying the trails/riding areas chasing each other, laughing and having fun, together.
Nothing better than seeing this lineup over the weekend.

Dad - polaris sportsman
daughter - 300ex
Son - breeze
mom - polaris sportsman

just my 2 cents.