Battery not charging, Help Lynn
Mar 6, 2012 | 04:51 PM
#31
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Yes your attached picture does show a grounded battery charge coil. I have to rethink my whole strategy.
And you did report earlier that your meter reads 0.6 ohms with the leads shorted (my bad). That is wrong (your meter is giving you wrong info) but we can work around it. So when your read 1.0 ohms (200 ohm scale) you're actually reading 0.4 ohms (0.4 plus 0.6 ohms equals 1.0 ohms). When you're reading 1.2 ohms it is actually 0.6 ohms. So the difference between the yellow and white wires to ground is 0.2 ohms. Your meter says 0.7 ohms but when we remove the 0.6 ohm offset that leaves 0.1 ohms. That doesn't agree with the 0.2 ohms calculated above, but it is only one least significant digit away so we can say that falls into the realm of the believable. My apologies for not catching on to the 0.6 ohm offset which you earlier reported
.
Your stator resistances are normal based on the new model. So let's go back to your 3/01 post of stator voltages where you got 14 volts, 22 volts and 16 volts AC. Just like your ohms measurements these should add up, but they don't. The question I have is whether the stator is good or not (now that I know there really is a grounded battery charge winding on a 6 pole stator). We should be able to measure that, and then check the measurements by seeing if they "add up".
Some questions: When you measured the AC voltages coming out of the stator were they done by cranking the starter motor? Was the cranking speed the same for each test? Or was it done at idle? Was the idle speed the same for each test? The measurents must all be done under identical conditions so that we are comparing apples and apples . If the stator voltages measure OK (and add up) then we can eliminate the stator as a possible faulty part. Then we're back to the regulator again....
And you did report earlier that your meter reads 0.6 ohms with the leads shorted (my bad). That is wrong (your meter is giving you wrong info) but we can work around it. So when your read 1.0 ohms (200 ohm scale) you're actually reading 0.4 ohms (0.4 plus 0.6 ohms equals 1.0 ohms). When you're reading 1.2 ohms it is actually 0.6 ohms. So the difference between the yellow and white wires to ground is 0.2 ohms. Your meter says 0.7 ohms but when we remove the 0.6 ohm offset that leaves 0.1 ohms. That doesn't agree with the 0.2 ohms calculated above, but it is only one least significant digit away so we can say that falls into the realm of the believable. My apologies for not catching on to the 0.6 ohm offset which you earlier reported
.Your stator resistances are normal based on the new model. So let's go back to your 3/01 post of stator voltages where you got 14 volts, 22 volts and 16 volts AC. Just like your ohms measurements these should add up, but they don't. The question I have is whether the stator is good or not (now that I know there really is a grounded battery charge winding on a 6 pole stator). We should be able to measure that, and then check the measurements by seeing if they "add up".
Some questions: When you measured the AC voltages coming out of the stator were they done by cranking the starter motor? Was the cranking speed the same for each test? Or was it done at idle? Was the idle speed the same for each test? The measurents must all be done under identical conditions so that we are comparing apples and apples . If the stator voltages measure OK (and add up) then we can eliminate the stator as a possible faulty part. Then we're back to the regulator again....
I never did a test cranking the starter motor and i don't know what the crank speed is. I did do a test when quad was idling, back at the start on the first page, but these voltages wont be correct because of the 0.6 differece on meter. When you say add up, Should the voltages all be the same?
Mar 7, 2012 | 12:13 AM
#32
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Hi, when i measured the voltage i did what you said at a medium fast engine speed, The only concern is the reason for the different voltage readings was i was on and off the throttle as it wouldn't settle at the same revs. If i test again i will screw down the throttle screw so i can hold it steady at the correct revs.
I never did a test cranking the starter motor and i don't know what the crank speed is. I did do a test when quad was idling, back at the start on the first page, but these voltages wont be correct because of the 0.6 differece on meter. When you say add up, Should the voltages all be the same?
I never did a test cranking the starter motor and i don't know what the crank speed is. I did do a test when quad was idling, back at the start on the first page, but these voltages wont be correct because of the 0.6 differece on meter. When you say add up, Should the voltages all be the same?
The idea is that if the voltages at the regulator are correct (and add up) then we're back to the regulator being wrong again. But let's not jump to conclusions until the stator voltages at the regulator connector are established and make sense.
Mar 18, 2012 | 10:47 PM
#35
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These voltages are still not adding up 
.
First off, evey time you've measured this before the white wire to the green wire has always had the highest reading (which it should). The yellow wre to the green wire should be a little less. But you have the highest voltage on the yellow wire to the green wire in you last post. This isn't right.
Second, it shouldn't make any difference whether you have the leads reversed or not since you are measuring AC voltages. You report that you read 2.3 volts or 2.9 volts depending on which way around the leads are. Your doing these measurements with the regulator disconnected (looking into the regulator wiring harness connector) right? [see original instructions posted 12/04/11]? If you're measuring the voltages with the regulator hook up then that is one possible explanation as to why nothing is making sense. If you really are measuring these voltages then your meter is broken.
Thirdly, your numbers just don't add up. The stator winding is actually a stack of windings that should add. Imagine a tall stack of books on a table. At the bottom of the stack is a green post-it-note. About one foot and a half or so up from the base of the stack there is a yellow post-it-note sticking out between two books in the tall stack of books. And at the top of the book stack there is a white post-it-note sticking out from the top of the stack. Suppose I use a ruler to measure the distance from the bottom green post-it-note to the yellow post-it-note and get 18.5 inches. Then I measure the distance from the yellow post-it-note to the white post-it-note on the top of the stack and get 2.5 inches. Well then I know that the distance from the bottom of the stack (green post-it-note) to the top of the stack (white post-it-note) will be 18.5 inches plus 2.5 inches, or 21.0 inches. I don't have to measure this distance because the numbers will of course simply add up. But if I did measure the distance (top to bottom) and got 24 inches then I could say with complete confidence that there is something wrong with the measurement intruments and/or measurement technique.
Your stator voltages also stack and should add up exactly the same as the analogy above. Note only do your measurements not add up, and are not repeatable, you are now measuring that the distance from the bottom to the top of the stack is shorter than the distance from the bottom to the middle of the stack. This is not possible
.
Do you have another meter to try?
. First off, evey time you've measured this before the white wire to the green wire has always had the highest reading (which it should). The yellow wre to the green wire should be a little less. But you have the highest voltage on the yellow wire to the green wire in you last post. This isn't right.
Second, it shouldn't make any difference whether you have the leads reversed or not since you are measuring AC voltages. You report that you read 2.3 volts or 2.9 volts depending on which way around the leads are. Your doing these measurements with the regulator disconnected (looking into the regulator wiring harness connector) right? [see original instructions posted 12/04/11]? If you're measuring the voltages with the regulator hook up then that is one possible explanation as to why nothing is making sense. If you really are measuring these voltages then your meter is broken.
Thirdly, your numbers just don't add up. The stator winding is actually a stack of windings that should add. Imagine a tall stack of books on a table. At the bottom of the stack is a green post-it-note. About one foot and a half or so up from the base of the stack there is a yellow post-it-note sticking out between two books in the tall stack of books. And at the top of the book stack there is a white post-it-note sticking out from the top of the stack. Suppose I use a ruler to measure the distance from the bottom green post-it-note to the yellow post-it-note and get 18.5 inches. Then I measure the distance from the yellow post-it-note to the white post-it-note on the top of the stack and get 2.5 inches. Well then I know that the distance from the bottom of the stack (green post-it-note) to the top of the stack (white post-it-note) will be 18.5 inches plus 2.5 inches, or 21.0 inches. I don't have to measure this distance because the numbers will of course simply add up. But if I did measure the distance (top to bottom) and got 24 inches then I could say with complete confidence that there is something wrong with the measurement intruments and/or measurement technique.
Your stator voltages also stack and should add up exactly the same as the analogy above. Note only do your measurements not add up, and are not repeatable, you are now measuring that the distance from the bottom to the top of the stack is shorter than the distance from the bottom to the middle of the stack. This is not possible
. Do you have another meter to try?
Last edited by LynnEdwards; Mar 18, 2012 at 10:51 PM. Reason: fixing typos
Mar 19, 2012 | 04:31 PM
#36
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These voltages are still not adding up .
First off, evey time you've measured this before the white wire to the green wire has always had the highest reading (which it should). The yellow wre to the green wire should be a little less. But you have the highest voltage on the yellow wire to the green wire in you last post. This isn't right.
Second, it shouldn't make any difference whether you have the leads reversed or not since you are measuring AC voltages. You report that you read 2.3 volts or 2.9 volts depending on which way around the leads are. Your doing these measurements with the regulator disconnected (looking into the regulator wiring harness connector) right? [see original instructions posted 12/04/11]? If you're measuring the voltages with the regulator hook up then that is one possible explanation as to why nothing is making sense. If you really are measuring these voltages then your meter is broken.
Thirdly, your numbers just don't add up. The stator winding is actually a stack of windings that should add. Imagine a tall stack of books on a table. At the bottom of the stack is a green post-it-note. About one foot and a half or so up from the base of the stack there is a yellow post-it-note sticking out between two books in the tall stack of books. And at the top of the book stack there is a white post-it-note sticking out from the top of the stack. Suppose I use a ruler to measure the distance from the bottom green post-it-note to the yellow post-it-note and get 18.5 inches. Then I measure the distance from the yellow post-it-note to the white post-it-note on the top of the stack and get 2.5 inches. Well then I know that the distance from the bottom of the stack (green post-it-note) to the top of the stack (white post-it-note) will be 18.5 inches plus 2.5 inches, or 21.0 inches. I don't have to measure this distance because the numbers will of course simply add up. But if I did measure the distance (top to bottom) and got 24 inches then I could say with complete confidence that there is something wrong with the measurement intruments and/or measurement technique.
Your stator voltages also stack and should add up exactly the same as the analogy above. Note only do your measurements not add up, and are not repeatable, you are now measuring that the distance from the bottom to the top of the stack is shorter than the distance from the bottom to the middle of the stack. This is not possible.
Do you have another meter to try?
. First off, evey time you've measured this before the white wire to the green wire has always had the highest reading (which it should). The yellow wre to the green wire should be a little less. But you have the highest voltage on the yellow wire to the green wire in you last post. This isn't right.
Second, it shouldn't make any difference whether you have the leads reversed or not since you are measuring AC voltages. You report that you read 2.3 volts or 2.9 volts depending on which way around the leads are. Your doing these measurements with the regulator disconnected (looking into the regulator wiring harness connector) right? [see original instructions posted 12/04/11]? If you're measuring the voltages with the regulator hook up then that is one possible explanation as to why nothing is making sense. If you really are measuring these voltages then your meter is broken.
Thirdly, your numbers just don't add up. The stator winding is actually a stack of windings that should add. Imagine a tall stack of books on a table. At the bottom of the stack is a green post-it-note. About one foot and a half or so up from the base of the stack there is a yellow post-it-note sticking out between two books in the tall stack of books. And at the top of the book stack there is a white post-it-note sticking out from the top of the stack. Suppose I use a ruler to measure the distance from the bottom green post-it-note to the yellow post-it-note and get 18.5 inches. Then I measure the distance from the yellow post-it-note to the white post-it-note on the top of the stack and get 2.5 inches. Well then I know that the distance from the bottom of the stack (green post-it-note) to the top of the stack (white post-it-note) will be 18.5 inches plus 2.5 inches, or 21.0 inches. I don't have to measure this distance because the numbers will of course simply add up. But if I did measure the distance (top to bottom) and got 24 inches then I could say with complete confidence that there is something wrong with the measurement intruments and/or measurement technique.
Your stator voltages also stack and should add up exactly the same as the analogy above. Note only do your measurements not add up, and are not repeatable, you are now measuring that the distance from the bottom to the top of the stack is shorter than the distance from the bottom to the middle of the stack. This is not possible
. Do you have another meter to try?
I'm getting puzzled now, with this quad. Tested again, Charged battery up and ran quad for a while. G-W 18v, G-Y 18.7v, Y-W same as before. On earlier tests the quad was at a fast idle, when G-W was higher voltage.
Yes im doing these measurements with the regulator disconnected and looking into the regulator wiring harness connector.
I'm not sure if meter is broken, i bought it new just for this purpose. I have tested it on chargers, battery's and even the house socket and was exactly 240v, Although the 0.6 ohms reading with leads together and now different voltage reading with the leads, depending which way round makes me wonder. I dont have another meter. I will try and get one, If not i could buy a better one, although i have my doubts that its something up with wiring of quad.
Say the meter is correct and working fine, Could this be a wiring problem?
Im going to have a look at the wiring and see if there is anything out of place
Mar 20, 2012 | 11:22 PM
#37
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The important thing is that the engine be at the same speed for all the tests. I wish I was there to look over your shoulder while you're doing the measurements ...
I can't imagine wiring causing this issue unless there is an intermittent ground, or something like that. The fact that you're measuring different voltages when the meter leads are reversed is very strange. For pure AC voltages it should not matter which way around the leads are. That is what makes me suspect the meter, or measurement techique - such as measuring the two voltages at different engine speeds.
... I can't imagine wiring causing this issue unless there is an intermittent ground, or something like that. The fact that you're measuring different voltages when the meter leads are reversed is very strange. For pure AC voltages it should not matter which way around the leads are. That is what makes me suspect the meter, or measurement techique - such as measuring the two voltages at different engine speeds.
Mar 21, 2012 | 05:13 PM
#38
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The important thing is that the engine be at the same speed for all the tests. I wish I was there to look over your shoulder while you're doing the measurements ...
I can't imagine wiring causing this issue unless there is an intermittent ground, or something like that. The fact that you're measuring different voltages when the meter leads are reversed is very strange. For pure AC voltages it should not matter which way around the leads are. That is what makes me suspect the meter, or measurement techique - such as measuring the two voltages at different engine speeds.
... I can't imagine wiring causing this issue unless there is an intermittent ground, or something like that. The fact that you're measuring different voltages when the meter leads are reversed is very strange. For pure AC voltages it should not matter which way around the leads are. That is what makes me suspect the meter, or measurement techique - such as measuring the two voltages at different engine speeds.
for around £30,thing is i will hardly use it but ineed to get this fixed.
Mar 23, 2012 | 12:59 AM
#39
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Thirty pounds (£30) seems reasonable for a good meter these days. I can remember the days (not that many years back) when a good meter was so costly that my boss said absolutely no... It is amazing how things have changed over the years....
Mar 26, 2012 | 07:13 AM
#40
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So i got another meter, Compared to the old meter the resistance and volts were different, so presuming the old meter was broken the new meter should be correct. Here are the measurements
W-G 11.8v
Y-G 11.3v
W-Y 2.6v and 2.9 again if the leads are reversed
W-G 11.8v
Y-G 11.3v
W-Y 2.6v and 2.9 again if the leads are reversed
