i bought a gio 110 for my kids for xmas and it wouldnt start unless we boosted it. So after a few days of that being a pain when there helmets kept hitting the kill switch, went and bought a new battery and still the same thing. Checked the wires and the one coming out of the starter was loose as hell. One tug and it broke, Took it apart and all the plastic holding the insides together was all smashed up. Bought a new one and went to hook the battery up and it was turning over with the key off and kill on???? So was reading on here about the selonoid being bad, ran to local auto part store and picked up a 12 volt selonoid, now it wont turn over at all. The battery is fully charged , if i jump it with a screw driver on the two poles on the selonoid it tries to start. Any ideas or help will be very much apreciated. My kids really want to ride their toy!!

 

There seems to multiple things going on here:

1) Battery won't crank starter
2) You found a loose wire near the starter, tugged it and it broke. You changed "it* (whatever "it" is...) and ran into the next problem... COuld you please clarify what "it" is? Was it the battery cable you changed? The starter motor?
3) The starter now cranks all the time, and somehow you determined the solenoid is bad. Exactly how did you determine this? It is possible for solenoids to fail shorted (so that the starter engages the moment you hook up the battery cable), but is really rare. This is why I ask the question. It seems unlikely that you're having one problem, go about changing "it" (whatever that is ), and now have a completely different (and very rare) problem. Something isn't kosher here.
4) And now you've gone to the auto store and bought a solenoid that doesn't work. What solenoid did you buy? Is this for a quad or motorcycle, or for a car? My local auto parts stores don't carry quad solenoids so this raises suspicions. How big is this solenoid that you installed? Is this solenoid for a car? Have you checked your fuse?
5) When you jump across this new mysterious solenoid, it "tries to start". What does that mean exactly? Does this means the starter turns slowly? Or maybe it means the starter turns normally but doesn't ever fire? Or does it try to fire but just can't get up to starting and idling?

I'm asking a lot of questions... I'm in an information gathering mode so I can try to understand what is going on. Please try to answer all the questions as best you can. If you don't know the answer to any question, just say so. Whatever you do, if you don't know don't make up answers. That's sure to send us down a proverbial garden path... .

 

Ok so the battery is charged completly
"it" i mean starter sorry and it was the wire from starter to solenoid that was loose. Bought a new starter and installed it.
Then ounce i connected the battery the starter kept cranking, not fast enough to start the quad but not like a dead battery ?? If that makes sence.
So then i came on here and read alot of posts on bad selonoids, because of the problems i have had since new, having to boost everytime to start the quad, figured id try to switch out solenoids before coming on here and asking for help. But now you mentioned it i asked for a quad solenoid and the teller said it should all be the same? So yes it is for a car.
Now it will not crank at all. Unless i jump the solenoid the starter turns slowly. Hope that answers all questions neccasary to rectify my problem

Thanks and sorry for not being clear the first post

 

You need a meter. They're cheap now days and a really powerful tool. You can get a really nice one for under $20.

On your new solenoid: With the ignition switch off, measure the resistance in ohms between the two small terminals on the solenoid. Use the lowest ohms scale you have - like 2 ohms or 20 ohms. Don't use any scale that has "K" or "M" in it. 2K ohms is 2000 ohms, and that is too high. 2M ohms is 2 million ohms, and that is way, way too high. What you are looking for is something around 4 ohms or so.

Solenoids are really simple devices. They have a small coil of wire in them wound around a steel core, and the two coil ends connected to the two small terminals. When you apply 12 volts across into this small coil, current flows which generates a magnetic field, which sucks down a steel plate and shorts the two big screw terminals together - just like you did when you jumped across the solenoid. The idea here is that this solenoid can use a small amount of current (3 amps or so) into the small terminals to switch on and off a much larger current into the starter motor (35 amps or so). If you used a starter switch to directly switch the starter current on and off it would have to be a humongous switch (not to mention the ignition switch, the brake switch, the fuse, and all the associated wiring).

Starter solenoids for cars have to switch many hundreds of amps to the starter motor. That requires a bigger steel plate (the one that gets sucked down), and a stronger pull down force which means more currrent in the small actuating coil. This higher current may be higher than your fuse value. Hence you push the start button, the starter solenoid draws (lets say) 10 amps. This silently blows your fuse, and now you have nothing unless you manually jump across the starter solenoid again. Did you check your fuse? It will be located near the battery...

By using a meter to measure the resistance of the solenoid small wires we can calculate if the solenoid is too big for your quad.

You stated in your first post that you had to "boost" the original battery. I may have assumed wrong when I thought that meant you jumped the quad to a car battery. Were you refering to the emergency "boost" setting on some kind of battery charger? If so this may explain why the solenoid quit. I do not think using the emergency boost output of a charger is a good idea on a completely dead battery. The output of the charger puts out DC voltage that hops up and down from + something volts and zero volts at 120 times a second (twice the mains frequency). If your battery is flat dead the solenoid won't stay firmly closed during cranking. The contacts will burn. Your much better off jumping to a car battery using jumper cables (using great care to get the polarity right...).

On your Battery: How did you fully charge your battery? Those little quad batteries should never be charged at more than two amps. Even two amps is a bit high. Car chargers usually have 10 amp charge rates too, which you should never use on a quad.

When you jump across the solenoid the starte cranks slowly. Usually this is a battery problem. This is dead simple to test. Take your meter and set it to measure DC volts on the 20 volt scale. Measure the battery voltage right on the battery terminals while jumping across the solenoid and the starter motor is turning. You should read better than 11.5 volts. If you do your battery is fine. If not, then your battery is discharged, bad, or the engine is too hard to turn. Next use jumper cables to jump your quad battery to your car battery (use *extra* care to get the polarity right) and try jumping across the solenoid again. If the quad starter turns at normal speed then your battery is at fault.

 

I used a quad (small 12volt battery) charger on 2amps. Now the solenoid was almost double the size. So i picked a gio factory one from a place which only deals with gio. Now it turns but needs a boost to start completely, again back to original problem. The battery was reading 12.2 volts but as soon as i hit start button down to 3.5 volts?? Let off starter switch and back to 12 volts it goes. Same when i jump the solenoid(pole to pole) 3.5 volt reading. Toys 4 boys had a deal where i could pick up a new cdi, spark plug wire, solenoid, and the part that keeps the battery charged while riding for just over 40$. So i had to grab it all and all has been switched. I also bought another gio 50 so i have extra parts for it now if anything goes on it, but runs great. So any more ideas on what causing my problem? Or do i need to send it in for the 100$ an hour that i really dont want to do. Thanks again lynn for the help.

 

If you measure the voltage right on the battery terminals (plus and minus) with your meter, and it drops to 3.5 volts when trying to start up the quad then your battery is bad or discharged. Your starter could have been drawing too much current (frozen engine - defective starter), but you eliminated that completely by boosting it to another power source (you haven't told me what that is yet...). So you're back to a bad/discharged battery. And again, what is this "boost" source? A car battery? Another quad battery? The "boost mode" on a battery charger?

When I say "measure the voltage right on the battery terminals" I need you to follow that procedure literally and exactly. The red lead goes on the positive post coming out of the battery case (and not the battery cable, or cable lug, or anthing else). The black lead goes on the negative post coming out of the battery case (and not the battery cable, battery lug, frame ground, engine ground or anything else). If you get right on the battery you are measuring just the battery all by itself. If you put your probes anywhere else than you are measuring the battery together with other stuff (wires, lugs, grounds, etc.).

I know you said you changed the battery. Perhaps you got a bad one? How about swapping the batteries between your problem quad and the new one and see if the problem transfers to the new quad?

I wouldn't send this in to a shop. I think you can do it yourself. At least it worth a try...

 

Ok ill give it another go.
I measured the volts right off the battery terminals. And boosting was jumper cables from my truck. How ever i missed a step where i was suppose to hook cables up to truck battery, not running, and see if it would turn over. The quad is at a freinds house which he has no internet so i have to come home and back, which is why i missed this step. I will try switching the battery tomorrow when i go back and hopefully i did just get a faulty battery. Thanks so much for everything and being patient with me.

 

Well i changed the batteries around and the new quads battery starts the 110 and my old quads battery starts the 50. I snipped off a zip tie that was holding the ignition wires to frame. Snipped it before trying just to start the quad, So im guessing it was just a pinched wire?? It was tied as tight as possible. But thanks again for the help. There both running good for now, if i have any more problems ill be back for your help again.

 

By all means come back for help if the gremlins reappear. I don't think a pinched wire was the problem. I would bet a bad connection somewhere that was fixed with the battery swap, or a marginal battery that starts a 50cc quad but not a 110cc.

I'm glad you got two running quads, and again, if the problem reappears we can look at it from a fresh viewpoint .

 

I keep reading this urban legend over and over on the internet, and I can only hold my head in my hands and wonder how this came to be. It cetainly has been deseminated far and wide...

Boosting a quad from a truck (or car battery) can be done with the truck (car)engine running or not. It makes very little difference. A car/truck battery with a stopped engine delivers 12.6 volts of voltage, and can deliver a whopping 1000 amps into a short circuit. That's a lot of current, so be careful to get the polarity correct when doing this.

A car/truck battery when the engine is running is raised to 14 volts (+/- 1/2 volt), and can put out 1000 amps into a short circuit from the battery, and an additional 10 to 20 amps from the alternator (at idle). So that makes a total of 1020 amps. So what? The difference is trivial... Even if you rev the truck/car engine up it is still small potatoes in the big picture...

Your quad all by itself when it is working normally has a battery voltage of 12.6 volts with the engine stopped, and when it is running at speed has a voltage of 14 volts (+/- 1/2 volt). This is the same as a car/truck battery charging system. So what's the difference? If your quad can run normally (by itself) from 12.6 to 14 volts, and you connect it to a car/truck charging system that is also 12.6 volts to 14 volts, then (again) so what? It's the same. But again, you must take extra care to get the polarity right when you do this.

I said earlier that a car battery can put out 1000 amps into a short circuit. To keep things in perspective I should also say that a quad battery can put out 100 to 150 amps into a short circuit. Both can cause damage very quickly when there is a huge fault, but the car battery (note that whether or not the engine is running is ridiculously trivial) will damage things much faster. So if your quad battery is generating smoke off the starter wiring when trying to start, I wouldn't try jumping your quad to a car/truck battery unless you're trying to generate 10 times as much smoke in the same short amount of time. But this is common sense (I would hope). Other than the starter wires, the rest of your wiring is protected by a fuse, so it doesn't matter. Quad battery/car battery - they both will just blow the fuse if something is trying to draw too much current.

One final caveat: You should not use a running car/truck engine to fully charge up a completely dead quad battery. The reason for this is the same for not using a car battery charger to charge up a quad battery. The charge current will be too high, and will damage the battery over the charge cycle. It is a heat issue. But to hook up jumper cables to just boost the battery for a few seconds (to even 10's of seconds)? No problem.