Shame on Arctic Cat
#21
01-11-2004, 11:13 PM
Shame on Arctic Cat
Good post Dan. I'd like to add, the Japanese, while buying real estate in America, were also purchasers of two of the three largest slaghter houses in the land during the eighties. There were still plenty of trade schools and college grads. They all for the most part, had a good job when they finished whatever continued education.
What's different today is that there are very few jobs for our kids. We have college grads taking jobs as managers of Mc Donald's Restaurants, with degrees in Chemical Engineering. Only the few lucky individuals get to interview.
Most banks in America have all been monopolized. Only the huge conglomerates still exists. What happened to "Anti Trade Laws" that used to protect a company (business) from a take over?
Small companies were run by individuals or families that had foresight and could convince a bank to loan the money needed to get started. Neighborhood banks did this all over the country. Today, with the volume of money and business that passes through our banks, they don't have time and frankly could care less about what you want to do as a small business person. This does two things:
*It causes the small business guy to look elsewhere for funding which may include dropping a product, etc.
*A major manufacturer, like AC must find other avenues to maintain and increase productivity. Hence, Gander Mountain...
There is no trickle down affect. Companies are worried about the bottom line. Competition is greater than ever in the banking world as well as the job market.
There's a price to pay for being global and our kids are going to pay the ultimate price. Yeah, I know! Who cares...
Chuck
What's different today is that there are very few jobs for our kids. We have college grads taking jobs as managers of Mc Donald's Restaurants, with degrees in Chemical Engineering. Only the few lucky individuals get to interview.
Most banks in America have all been monopolized. Only the huge conglomerates still exists. What happened to "Anti Trade Laws" that used to protect a company (business) from a take over?
Small companies were run by individuals or families that had foresight and could convince a bank to loan the money needed to get started. Neighborhood banks did this all over the country. Today, with the volume of money and business that passes through our banks, they don't have time and frankly could care less about what you want to do as a small business person. This does two things:
*It causes the small business guy to look elsewhere for funding which may include dropping a product, etc.
*A major manufacturer, like AC must find other avenues to maintain and increase productivity. Hence, Gander Mountain...
There is no trickle down affect. Companies are worried about the bottom line. Competition is greater than ever in the banking world as well as the job market.
There's a price to pay for being global and our kids are going to pay the ultimate price. Yeah, I know! Who cares...
Chuck
#22
01-12-2004, 12:18 AM
Shame on Arctic Cat
Couldn't disagree more. Small business and hard work in manufacturing based businesses is what made this country #1 and not the Home Depots of the world.
As far as the "bang for the buck" syndrome, if your Staples copier breaks try taking it back and see what the low-paying 20 hr/wk high school student has to say about it.
Think about it, we close every store in town down and once we are the only store within a 50 mile radius we can control the labor, prices and even who the next........mayor might be. Support your local stores.
As far as the "bang for the buck" syndrome, if your Staples copier breaks try taking it back and see what the low-paying 20 hr/wk high school student has to say about it.
Think about it, we close every store in town down and once we are the only store within a 50 mile radius we can control the labor, prices and even who the next........mayor might be. Support your local stores.
#23
01-12-2004, 01:04 AM
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Shame on Arctic Cat
Originally posted by: TRV
If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.
Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????
If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.
Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????
This post has been seriously truncated. My question is, how can the normal (see brand loyal dealer for nearly 20 years) compete on sales of atv's when they are paying $500 more per machine?
I don't know if you were referring to me as far as pro-American business owner, but did you know that the majority of Kawasaki atv's are produced in Lincoln, Nebraska? Did you know that in that Lincoln factory they produce wheels for Honda, Suzuki, Bombardier, and Polaris? Did you know that many Suzuki atv's are produced in Rome, Georgia? The Rome plant was new in 2002. Japanese owned company? hmmmmm...how far would ANY Arctic Cat get without Suzuki, and now Kawasaki motors? If you want to wave the flag, wave in Polaris' court. Polaris makes ALL of their own snowmobile, watercraft, motorcycle & atv motors now, right here in the good ol' US of A.
As far as my background goes, I'm a union, blue collar worker. I buy quality. If I can buy something of equal or better quality made here, I'll do it.
My post wasn't meant to illicit a flag-waving frenzy, it was just to point out, what I felt was a wrong by Mother Cat. Has anyone been able to come up with an email address on Arctic Cat's website? There isn't one, how convenient.
Bruce
btw, My son & I put on over 100 miles on our quads this weekend...here in 'sled country'.
#24
01-12-2004, 01:05 AM
Shame on Arctic Cat
too many LONG posts to read, WOW. yes, shame on Arctic Cat for wanting to branch out and make money. what kind of company are they?? my local dealership is small but i haven't heard them ever complain about ATV's. Arctic Cat as of late has really been pressuring there dealers to take on a lot of new machines each year but that is the way it is, and always will be, if some dealerships that can't handle the volume get lost in the process and it opens up another door for AC to sell machines, OH WELL. It doesn't make them bad it makes them smart. If my local dealer stopped selling Arctic Cat atv's, no big deal, i would drive to gander mountain and buy one, and probably save a couple bucks. Open your eyes and realize that yes, the world revolves around money and if the little mom and pop shop down the road can't make any money for Arctic Cat why should Arctic Cat waste their time with them?
#25
01-12-2004, 04:09 AM
Shame on Arctic Cat
Originally posted by: MrVvrroomm
In response to your first comment: They sell atv's all year round in this part of the country. This particular dealer has been selling AC atv's since day one. Remember the POS Bearcat? In fact, the past several winters here, it's been more likely someone would buy an atv than a sled in the winter.
This post has been seriously truncated. My question is, how can the normal (see brand loyal dealer for nearly 20 years) compete on sales of atv's when they are paying $500 more per machine?
I don't know if you were referring to me as far as pro-American business owner, but did you know that the majority of Kawasaki atv's are produced in Lincoln, Nebraska? Did you know that in that Lincoln factory they produce wheels for Honda, Suzuki, Bombardier, and Polaris? Did you know that many Suzuki atv's are produced in Rome, Georgia? The Rome plant was new in 2002. Japanese owned company? hmmmmm...how far would ANY Arctic Cat get without Suzuki, and now Kawasaki motors? If you want to wave the flag, wave in Polaris' court. Polaris makes ALL of their own snowmobile, watercraft, motorcycle & atv motors now, right here in the good ol' US of A.
As far as my background goes, I'm a union, blue collar worker. I buy quality. If I can buy something of equal or better quality made here, I'll do it.
My post wasn't meant to illicit a flag-waving frenzy, it was just to point out, what I felt was a wrong by Mother Cat. Has anyone been able to come up with an email address on Arctic Cat's website? There isn't one, how convenient.
Bruce
btw, My son & I put on over 100 miles on our quads this weekend...here in 'sled country'.
Originally posted by: TRV
If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.
Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????
If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.
Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????
This post has been seriously truncated. My question is, how can the normal (see brand loyal dealer for nearly 20 years) compete on sales of atv's when they are paying $500 more per machine?
I don't know if you were referring to me as far as pro-American business owner, but did you know that the majority of Kawasaki atv's are produced in Lincoln, Nebraska? Did you know that in that Lincoln factory they produce wheels for Honda, Suzuki, Bombardier, and Polaris? Did you know that many Suzuki atv's are produced in Rome, Georgia? The Rome plant was new in 2002. Japanese owned company? hmmmmm...how far would ANY Arctic Cat get without Suzuki, and now Kawasaki motors? If you want to wave the flag, wave in Polaris' court. Polaris makes ALL of their own snowmobile, watercraft, motorcycle & atv motors now, right here in the good ol' US of A.
As far as my background goes, I'm a union, blue collar worker. I buy quality. If I can buy something of equal or better quality made here, I'll do it.
My post wasn't meant to illicit a flag-waving frenzy, it was just to point out, what I felt was a wrong by Mother Cat. Has anyone been able to come up with an email address on Arctic Cat's website? There isn't one, how convenient.
Bruce
btw, My son & I put on over 100 miles on our quads this weekend...here in 'sled country'.
As far as Polaris building all their quads in the US, I think you'd better look into that a little further. Their motors are built overseas, with the exception of the new twins. Polaris does just as much outsourcing as any other company, in this competative market, it's suicide if you don't. People buy purely Japanese bikes because they're proven in reliability. I don't wanna grease my big dollar quad before every ride, or wonder if it's gonna get me home again. Fact is you rarely know what's built where nowdays. I notice in the states, a lot of businesses will trumpet "made in the USA", just to pull on your patriotic heart strings, meanwhile they have no idea where anything's built, what parts were used to build it and where the parts originated from. Most of the time you're being mislead, and what you're buying is assembled in the US using parts from a variety of countries.
#26
01-12-2004, 07:05 PM
Shame on Arctic Cat
It's obvious, not all are ever gonna agree on this subject. Arctic Cat, Polaris, Honda, you name it. They all are going to make changes purely out of reason, which we may not like. They are going to make mistakes but hopefully they won't be life threatening to us or the business'. Kawi and Suzuki have joined ranks to do R&D and in the future, I'm sure we'll see more of the same from other ATV manufacturers. This is the fastest growing sport in the country. Prices will bottom out due to competition and laws are forth coming to restrict even more riders.
So if you think it's OK, wait a while. Somebody's gonna step on your tutu just when you thought you had it all going on.
One thing working people and company leaders have to learn, all over again...
We have to work together to get congress to stop the bleeding. If we have to march on capital hill, so be it... But we all need to unite to send a message of jobs and ownership is a priority in this country. No, I don't like the idea of Suzuki moving in and buying up land, building a factory and hiring us to work for them until the sales drop then, they get to go back home, with the money...
Enjoy riding whatever you ride...
Chuck
So if you think it's OK, wait a while. Somebody's gonna step on your tutu just when you thought you had it all going on.
One thing working people and company leaders have to learn, all over again...
We have to work together to get congress to stop the bleeding. If we have to march on capital hill, so be it... But we all need to unite to send a message of jobs and ownership is a priority in this country. No, I don't like the idea of Suzuki moving in and buying up land, building a factory and hiring us to work for them until the sales drop then, they get to go back home, with the money...
Enjoy riding whatever you ride...
Chuck
#27
01-12-2004, 11:59 PM
Shame on Arctic Cat
Originally posted by: Bluethumb
As far as Polaris building all their quads in the US, I think you'd better look into that a little further. Their motors are built overseas, with the exception of the new twins. Polaris does just as much outsourcing as any other company, in this competative market, it's suicide if you don't. People buy purely Japanese bikes because they're proven in reliability. I don't wanna grease my big dollar quad before every ride, or wonder if it's gonna get me home again. Fact is you rarely know what's built where nowdays. I notice in the states, a lot of businesses will trumpet "made in the USA", just to pull on your patriotic heart strings, meanwhile they have no idea where anything's built, what parts were used to build it and where the parts originated from. Most of the time you're being mislead, and what you're buying is assembled in the US using parts from a variety of countries.
Originally posted by: MrVvrroomm
In response to your first comment: They sell atv's all year round in this part of the country. This particular dealer has been selling AC atv's since day one. Remember the POS Bearcat? In fact, the past several winters here, it's been more likely someone would buy an atv than a sled in the winter.
This post has been seriously truncated. My question is, how can the normal (see brand loyal dealer for nearly 20 years) compete on sales of atv's when they are paying $500 more per machine?
I don't know if you were referring to me as far as pro-American business owner, but did you know that the majority of Kawasaki atv's are produced in Lincoln, Nebraska? Did you know that in that Lincoln factory they produce wheels for Honda, Suzuki, Bombardier, and Polaris? Did you know that many Suzuki atv's are produced in Rome, Georgia? The Rome plant was new in 2002. Japanese owned company? hmmmmm...how far would ANY Arctic Cat get without Suzuki, and now Kawasaki motors? If you want to wave the flag, wave in Polaris' court. Polaris makes ALL of their own snowmobile, watercraft, motorcycle & atv motors now, right here in the good ol' US of A.
As far as my background goes, I'm a union, blue collar worker. I buy quality. If I can buy something of equal or better quality made here, I'll do it.
My post wasn't meant to illicit a flag-waving frenzy, it was just to point out, what I felt was a wrong by Mother Cat. Has anyone been able to come up with an email address on Arctic Cat's website? There isn't one, how convenient.
Bruce
btw, My son & I put on over 100 miles on our quads this weekend...here in 'sled country'.
Originally posted by: TRV
If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.
Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????
If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.
Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????
This post has been seriously truncated. My question is, how can the normal (see brand loyal dealer for nearly 20 years) compete on sales of atv's when they are paying $500 more per machine?
I don't know if you were referring to me as far as pro-American business owner, but did you know that the majority of Kawasaki atv's are produced in Lincoln, Nebraska? Did you know that in that Lincoln factory they produce wheels for Honda, Suzuki, Bombardier, and Polaris? Did you know that many Suzuki atv's are produced in Rome, Georgia? The Rome plant was new in 2002. Japanese owned company? hmmmmm...how far would ANY Arctic Cat get without Suzuki, and now Kawasaki motors? If you want to wave the flag, wave in Polaris' court. Polaris makes ALL of their own snowmobile, watercraft, motorcycle & atv motors now, right here in the good ol' US of A.
As far as my background goes, I'm a union, blue collar worker. I buy quality. If I can buy something of equal or better quality made here, I'll do it.
My post wasn't meant to illicit a flag-waving frenzy, it was just to point out, what I felt was a wrong by Mother Cat. Has anyone been able to come up with an email address on Arctic Cat's website? There isn't one, how convenient.
Bruce
btw, My son & I put on over 100 miles on our quads this weekend...here in 'sled country'.
As far as Polaris building all their quads in the US, I think you'd better look into that a little further. Their motors are built overseas, with the exception of the new twins. Polaris does just as much outsourcing as any other company, in this competative market, it's suicide if you don't. People buy purely Japanese bikes because they're proven in reliability. I don't wanna grease my big dollar quad before every ride, or wonder if it's gonna get me home again. Fact is you rarely know what's built where nowdays. I notice in the states, a lot of businesses will trumpet "made in the USA", just to pull on your patriotic heart strings, meanwhile they have no idea where anything's built, what parts were used to build it and where the parts originated from. Most of the time you're being mislead, and what you're buying is assembled in the US using parts from a variety of countries.
#29
01-13-2004, 09:42 AM
Shame on Arctic Cat
First let me say that I am a dealer in the Minneapolis metro area. I agree with you our market does not need any more competitive pressure whether it is from Gander or additional traditional dealers. Having said that your local dealer should be able to compete with Gander both on price and service. I would rather sell parts and service than new units any day. High margins make me happy! If Gander is selling units for $300 less than MSRP that is significantly more than we are getting.
We have 6 A/C units on the floor...........
We have 6 A/C units on the floor...........
#30
01-13-2004, 06:32 PM
Shame on Arctic Cat
I had a choice between Gander and a small business when I purchased another Cat last fall. I chose the small business. When I purchased my machine, I didn't want to wait for him to install the wench as it was on a Saturday and he had a showroom full of people. He did take the time to show me how to install the wench, where to route the wires and other tips. My wife also rides , so he made sure she understood everytrhing about the machine's operation. He has also sent me things like oil and filter and told me to send him a check when I got it. By the way, this was my first machine from him and before my purchase he never knew me.
I'm not saying Gander wouldn't do this as I have never purchased a ATV from them. But I can honestly say this fall when I get a 650, I'm heading back to my small dealer.
I'm not saying Gander wouldn't do this as I have never purchased a ATV from them. But I can honestly say this fall when I get a 650, I'm heading back to my small dealer.