Oh yeah baby! The Duramax will level the damn playing field a lot! 520ft.-lbs. of torque? Thats a lot. A lot of hp too, but I don't remember the numbers. Check this, they will also offer an HO version of the 6.0 with more power in the HD models. On top of that, they will have a huge 496cu V-8 that I think is designed off of the old 454 block. I forgot the hp and torque numbers on that one too, but it seemed like 345 horsepower. Damn! Thats sweet. Chevy for life man.

As far as your tires go, its your call. I have the 495's back on now so I can sell it. I can't see any power gain with them over the Claws. Really, the power loss wasn't much. I seemed to think it was at the time, but I think it was a pretention that I had from reading so much into it. Its faster on top with the Claws though, i know that. Traction is a no-brainer. $396 to AR from highlifter, probably a little more shipped to your area. If you ride any mud, these are the tires for you. If you do a ton of rocks, I think that they would get small chunks taken out of the lugs (as would any 1.25 inch lug tire in rocks), so maybe the smaller lugs of the Mud Bugs might be better. If I bought new tires tomorrow, they would be Claws again. They are just absolutely unbelievable. I can say this, if the weight thing is really just the deciding factor, its not a problem. I think the diameter has as much to do with it as the weight personally. For an ultimate traction/ride combo, the claws are the best in my opinion. By saying traction, I mean major traction. Like Outlaw and Vampire type. Its basically a Vamp without the crap ride. They steer good too. A lot better than the 495's by a mile. True to size also. I'm not a fan of mud bugs, but then again, I was looking for larger lug tires. Mud Bugs didn't impress me in that aspect. They are still the best tire in their lug class though.

Screw it. i'm saying go with the claws now cowboy. I think you would be more impressed with them. All those things sticking out of them just makes me glad I didnt get something else.

 

Well, damnit anyway. I went back and looked at your pics again, and I have to say, those claws look really pretty bad _ss on that 'Cat. You are right, the weight and power loss issue is my biggest concern, and that's why I was leaning towards the Bugs.

Here's the deal. I called HL today at about 3:30 my time. I forgot all about the time delay, and it was around 5:30 back there, and they had already closed. James had answered the phone though, and after I had said I could just call back tomorrow so he could get out of there, he said no, let him see what he could do. We talked about my 'Cat a bit, and came up with a few different options. He thought I would want a lift at first, and I said I really didn't care to have one, as I don't want to stress the joints out that much. He said the lift that is coming out for the '00 and newer auto 'Cats is a different design than the ones for the '99's, and mounts on top of the spring/shock rather than on the bottom of it. Supposedly it isn't as rough on the joints, but I don't quite see how that's possible. Anyway, he thought as long as I stuck with no more than 1 1/2"-2" at very most, it would be OK. I still don't think I want to go that route myself, we'll just wait and see when I decide on tires, and if they rub or not with the weight I carry.

Tires was the next issue. I kind of messed up on this issue. I had already told him that I was quite interested in the Mud Bugs, and didn't give him the option to offer me any suggestions before I asked about them. He said they are a great all around tire, and are very light for their size, though he didn't think that I'd notice much power loss with anything out there, other than the 28" vamps that weigh in at 46 lbs. without the rim attached. He said the Arctic Cats have about the highest torque and power of any machines out there, and would hold up to the weight with no regards, and that low range was unstoppable.

Now, with you commenting that you couldn't notice a difference in power going back to the 495's, I've once again, started thinking again. Damn, this is getting irritating. I'm having as much trouble with tires, as you are with the SP500! Now, I still believe that I will notice more of a difference than you did because I've got the 25's, and you are running the 26's. I'm sure there will be more of a noticeable difference because of the 2" variance. However, I've been thinking about the riding I do, and it's a lot in low range anyway, so I'm sure it really wouldn't matter that much.

Anyway, I'm sorry about the long post, but if you're still with me, I'm asking for your honest opinion once again. I don't ride very many rocks. Mostly I'm making my own trails in all kinds of conditions. I don't do a lot of pure mud riding though. The only gravel roads I see are about 2 miles one way from my elk camp, up into the high country, where it's just following game trails. The jeep trails I ride are a lot of twisty, windy barely beaten paths that have several very steep hills that nearly require winching up. The longest mud paths here during the summer months range in depths up to a couple feet, and usually not more than 30-40' long. I've never attempted going through something this deep with my 'Cat, as I always get high centered, then can't move at all. Up at my property, I have a lot of downed timber, so I'm always crossing logs or other timber debris.

Now, with this in mind, do you still recommend the Bi/Tri combo, or should I stick with the Bugs, or consider something else? It looks from your pictures that we do a lot of riding in similar conditions, so now what do you think???

Again, sorry to be such a pain in the _ss, I've definately beat this issue to the ground and should know by now, but still can't seem to decide what would be best. Thanks once again for your help.

Mike

 

Cowboy, have you ever checked out the Blackwater XT's? I hear they are a pretty good all around tire, and the weight is not supposed to be too bad.
I have 27" Vamps on my machine and I love them. Two riding buddies of mine bought 26" Vamps for their machines (a Grizzly and a Sportsman) and they are really happy they bought them. One of our other riding buddies that road with us has a Grizz with stock tires and got stuck 6 times on our hunting trip this year and we just crawled right through the stuff he was getting stuck in. We where all impressed on how well they did on hard packed and rocky stuff too. The Cat really hasn't noticed any noticeable power loss. The other guys didn't mention anything about power loss on their machines either. Oh by the way our 4th riding buddy has decided he needed Vamps for his machine too now. Before this trip all he did was cut our tires down. Lesson learned I guess.
We are getting the 26" Vamps shipped to us 4th class to Alaska for a total tires & shipping $370.00. Thats 26"x12 rear and 26"x9.5" front.
Call and ask for Dev at 1-888-299-8000 if you are interested. You can probably get a better shipping price in the lower 48 states. Good luck on your decision.

 

Irichard:
I've seen the Blackwaters around the local Yamaha shops here. They sell a lot of them as stock replacements or upgrades on the Kodiaks and Grizz's here in Pullman. To be honest, I'm sure it's a great tire for it's purpose, but it really doesn't do anything for me. I don't care for it a whole lot myself. Nothing against them, but just not me. Besides, of the very few people I've seen riding around my area's, a couple of them had blackwaters, and I kind of like being "different from the rest" if you know what I mean. That's another thing about the 'Cat. People see it sitting up on my trailer, or while passing my camp, and they always stop to ask "what the hell is that thing". They usually have never seen or heard of Arctic Cat's before, and always thought of Honda's being the only atv's out there. Since this has occured, I've now had two people (fellow elk hunters) sell their Honda's and buy 'Cat's!

I've seen a few picks from Alaskaweasel I think it was, that showed some really awesome country up there in Alaska, and the types of riding you guys encounter most of the time. Judging from those pics, I can see how you would definately need the superior traction of the aggressive lug tires, such as Vamps, Claws or Outlaws. I see how the stock Grizz was always getting stuck with you guys, that was some nasty looking stuff that I don't see how any stock tire could get through.

I've always liked the look of the Vamps, Claws and now the new Outlaws, but never really thought they would suit my particular needs, since I don't do a whole lot of mud riding only. I ride a lot of everything, with the exception of rocks, don't see many of them. Dare I say the Vamps might be a little "too" aggressive for my needs? Compared to the Claws, it appears that the claws seem to cross the center line a little more, and might then ride a little smoother. Not that this is a real issue or anything, but something to consider. And, since weight was my biggest concern, I think the Vamps do weigh more than the Claws, though I could be wrong. I've emailed HL again, and asked for weights, but haven't heard back yet on the specific sizes I'd want in the Bi/Tri combo, should I go that route. I can't remember if I asked Andy what his weighed, they would be the same size I would go with, if that is what I end up doing.

I must say now that after talking to HL, and your comment as well as Andy's latest, I'm not near as concerned about the power/weight issue as I was, so I'm starting to look at a few different options. I still like the idea of the Bugs and 589's, though I have to admit those Claws look MEAN on Andy's 'Cat, and if looks became the deciding factor, they would take the cake. I think mounted on my 'Cat, it would look like something between a hummer and a tank, stomping everything in it's path.

Whatever tire I go with, I'll end up getting a new set of rims, so I can swap back and forth between the tires, using my stock 489's for work and logging stuff, then the larger meats for play and exploring. I need to find out what the '01 AC rims (black) weigh, and cost, in comparison to the ITP Magnum Grey powder coat aluminum. I still think $99 is a lot to spend for rims, and I really don't need anything fancy or shiny anyway. My 'Cat is used for work and play, and I can't see putting polished rims on it anyway, might make the big 'Cat look a little girlish, kind of purty, ya know! Heh heh heh.

Andy, since you've swapped back to the 495's, are your 'Claws still on rims, or by themselves? If I haven't asked you already, do you know what they each weigh? I scanned through a couple months back and it looks like you were running 5 lbs. or so in front, and around 5.5 in back, is that right? With new rims, they would be 12x7 and I think the stock AC rims are 12x6.5 or so? Not sure what a half inch would do, maybe make the tire a hair wider (actual footprint on the ground) and a little shorter in actual heigth? The narrower rims might provide more of a "ballooned" effect which could then protect the rim a little better. I've managed to dent my stock wheel pretty bad, so another thing to think about-if aluminum is strong enough.

Again, thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Sorry to be such a pain in the butt. My financial aid is coming in either tomorrow, or maybe early next week. I've already paid for everything up till November, so I'll only have two months to pay, which leaves me with about $5,000 play money. As a result, I'm hoping to get some tires in the very near future! Thanks for all the patience!

Mike

 

Why would you want to sell that machine? tough looking and I bet it goes as good as it looks.

 

XEPathfinder- Now you know what all of the indecision was about. I love that machine, but there isn't a way to get the traction, clearance, and speed out of it. Still will be hard to part with though.

 

I would still recommend the Claws. I think the magazine with the weights in them is at my cousins house anyway. It must have had a Rancher article in it or something. The more I think about it, it seems like they had the weight of the 26" Bugs in that article anyway. Would be innacurate a little if I told you that was the weight of the 27".

I think the Claws will give you about as good of traction as the Vamps and will ride a ton better. Mine were a little rougher when they were new, but after I wore the tips of the tread a little, it improved a lot at slow speed. The tips stick up higher than the main tread bars at first.

The Bi claws even balloon enough on stock rims to protect them a bit. The Tri-Claws would have more tread on the ground with a 7" rim. I did have to run less pressure in them to keep the sizes close front and back. Right now, they are not mounted. Just laying in the garage in a pile. I don't have any accurate way of weighing them or I would do it.

The thing I remembered most about the article was actual tire size. The Mud Bugs were lower than whatever they were said to be. Claws were the same or .25" higher. The latest dirtwheels had the Tri's at 27.5". I noticed zero loss in stability with them. The wide rears are better than the thin stockers. The narrow Bi's steer much better than the 495's. Hard to slide them though. They do have bite.

Basically, the way I think of it, if Bugs were cheaper, then they would be something I might have considered, but at the same price range, I wanted the more aggressive tire. Claws give me that, and a good combination of traction without sacrificing ride quality as much (compared to Vamps or Outlaws).

Really, I think you get good traction with any of those tires. Mudrunners too. It probably comes down to ride and looks, and Claws look better than anything to me.

 

Andy:
Thanks once again for the info. I never heard back from high lifter on the email about the weights of the claws, so I guess I'll just call them tomorrow sometime. I hate to say this now, but I think I've made up my mind on the tires. While weight was my biggest concern, it appears now that I really don't have to worry that much about it. With that out of the way, I want great traction, and on yet another note, awesome looks. Where does that leave me? Yup, the 'Claws.

I keep switching between the HL page, and your own pics of your 'Cat, trying to picture them on mine, and man, I think it just looks awesome! Going with the Bugs, I was thinking of keeping 27x10x12's all the way around, but after talking to HL, they highly recommended going with 12" rears. As a result, I think what I'll end up doing is running 27x9.75x12 Bi's and 27x12x12 Tri's. I do ride a lot of hills, and do probably more side-hilling than I should, so I think the added width will help compensate for the heigth increase.

Problem now is money. I have to check tomorrow on financial aid to see if it went through or not. I've already paid everything up till November for school and all my bills, so the financial aid will just go right back in my bank account to build interest. The tires should cost me no more than $400 delivered, and if I add rims to that, the most expensive ones would be another $400 on top of that. I'm still checking on the weights of the AC stock black '01 rims compared to the ITP Magnum Powder coat Grey rims. I'm sure the AC rims are a lot cheaper, and if the weight is fairly low on them, I'll go that route. I seem to remember Boner posted something about the AC stock rims weighing in around 6.5 or 7 pounds, which really surprised me. The grey aluminum weigh 7 pounds, so I'll check the 'Cats for sure, then figure prices. I want to be able to swap the new tires with the stockers whenever I want, to work or play, so I need a set of rims as well.

What would really be awesome, is if my financial aid goes through in the next few days, and I can order them in the next week or two, then have them mounted in time for elk season! I'm a little concerned about how that will go. We've already had snow in the high country, and my 489's don't like snow too well. I'm planning on using my 'Cat as transportation of me and hopefully a downed animal up into and out of the high country. With very deep mud or snow, I won't be able to on the 489's, I know that for a fact. Be interesting to see what the 'Claws can do.

Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for all the help, and everybody putting up with my B.S. I really appreciate it! Take care, and hope the SP issues are going OK, for now anyway. Never know, you might have that machine before I even get my check! Best of luck with whatever happens. Well, I've had probably two beers too many now, so I think it's bed time.

Mike

 

Cowboy- If you get steel rims, get them from Rocky Mountain ATV. Only $50 for chrome there. $20 shipping is what they quoted me back when I was doing all my calling. Highlifter is a lot higher. Highlifter is the best place to get the Claws though. Cawood has them too, but when I said Bi or Tri claws, he said "We don't have them, we just have the Mud Machines". I told him they were the same thing and he didn't even know about it. I said look on the side of them and you will see. All of his ignorance about something he had in stock made me veer towards highlifter. Cawood is still a good place I think, but I just went with Highlifter. I think the difference would have been like $10 in Cawoods favor though.

 

Andy:
It seems HL doesn't like email too much. I've sent several over the last few weeks, and not heard back from a single one of them. I called again today, and talked to James once again. He said they are a great tire and would be a lot more traction than the bugs, but ride a little rougher. That's OK, I'm not too worried about the ride. Thing is, they're out of stock, and backordered on the Tri-Claws in the 27x12x12 size. None of their warehouses have them, and won't for a few weeks. As for weights, here's what he said:
27x9.75x12 Bi-Claws... 28 lbs.
27x12x12 Tri-Claws... 35 lbs.
ITP aluminum grey rims... 6.25 lbs.
Total for entire 'Cat front to back... 151 lbs.

I also called my dealer. He will get me stock '01 rims (black) for $54 each, though he didn't know the weight of the rims, and AC was closed so I have to call him back on tuesday to find out. He thought they were around 10-12 lbs., but wasn't sure. I'm going to weigh my rim/tire this weekend to see what the total is, and how that compares. If he's right, stock tire/wheel weight: 148 lbs. (with 10 lbs. rims) This gives a total of 3 lbs. increase with the 'Claws and ITP rims, over the stockers. Not Bad. If I find the AC rims to weigh less than that, I'll probably just get them since they're nearly half the price of the ITP's. If they weigh more, I'll stick with ITP's.

I saw you recommended to somebody over in the "tires, etc..." forum to look at cawood for the Tri-Claws, so I looked up their website. They had the Mud Machines listed, with the picture of the Tri-Claws. When I scanned through the sizes, they had both the Bi-Claw and Tri-Claw sizes listed in the entire range, only under the same Mud Machine name. Their prices were the same as HL, if I remember right. If it comes down to it, I wonder if HL would get the Tri's from Cawood, to make the sale???

Well, my financial aid was held up because they forgot to have me fill out 5 more papers. That's quite a bit of paperwork to just "forget" about. Anyway, they said I'd have my money on monday at 1:00. Won't get my hopes up just yet, as they've told me I'd have it "by now" twice already. Maybe the third times the charm, maybe I'll have to wait another week. Anyway, I've got that fever now, and can't wait for something to happen so I can get the damn things before elk season starts!

And so we wait.

Mike