Cowboy,

28" Vamps are the heaviest vamps at 43 lbs each UNMOUNTED. 27X12X12 Vamps are about 34 lbs with the Magnums being about about 5 oz heavier per tire. So, I am running the heaviest set up.

Vamps and Outlaws do ride a good bit rougher than the claws.

Steering, well with no spacers and the 12" tires all around I noticed no increase in steering effort at 5 mph and above. When stoped and on soft ground or grass I notice it's about about 30% harder to turn the bars.

When I added the spacers the steering effort went up about 10% more, BUT I think my lift kit will bring the steering effort back to where it was before.

 

Cowboy and Andy ... I didn't know how many shooters were on here. I think you will love the rem 700 VSSF, but that might be a bit much scope for it. I'm not real big on .22 centerfires, we have so much wind here in Kansas that they get blown all over creation. I currently own a rem 700 PSS-DM in .308 with a Leupold 4.5-14x tactical. I have owned a Stainless Sendero in 7 STW, now that one was a heck of a flat shooting rifle! I also own Remington sporters in .308, .223 and .338, a couple of Rugers, including M77 International and a LE model M77 .223 sniper rifle. Are you guys handloaders too?

 

Not a handloader, though it would be neat to get into if I had the stuff. I only have a handfull of guns, and nothing out of the ordinary. Pretty much just something for all seasons, and a S&W 686. Right now I'm kinda wanting a BAR in 300 Win Mag. A little overkill for the area, but still would be cool to have. Seeing as rifle season will be a year away now, I'll probably focus on a Beretta 92. Definitely am in the hunt for a new 22 rimfire. $10 for 550 shots. Cheap fun, though its more fun to really blow something up. I'd like to see what a 300 magnum would do to a watermelon personally.

 

Warhawk:
An LE M77 .223 sniper? Ohhhh, sounds fun! Actually, I've got the 4.5x14 Vari X III on my model 700 .30-06. Works great for deer and elk, but my eyes aren't that great, and I'd like to be able to bring it up a little closer. I keep mine on about 8x most of the time, even just for scanning. I rarely ever go down below that, and I do wish I had more than the 14x. But, for a deer or elk, I'm usually close enough that it's no big deal to me. Most people think the 4.5x14 is more than enough, but basically, I want to be able to see their nose hairs quiver! Might sound a little weird, but with higher magnification, I can dial the scope in better, make sure exactly where I'm putting my shots. And, with the desert terrain around the Tri-Cities area, combined with the wide open range type area here in Pullman, I'll be taking pretty long shots at prairie dogs, ground squirrels, etc. So, I want to make sure I can bring them up close enough to see from my eyes at a long range.

I personally don't do any re-loading. My buddy just bought a new loader set-up and all the dies for our specific calibers. I'm hoping he'll get it out of the box one of these days so we can start breaking it in! I'll probably end up getting one later on, after I have used his and know what I'm doing. He's done a little before off his grandpa's re-loader, and is going to teach me.

So what do you think, maybe the 6.5x20 would be better? I know I definately need bigger than the 4.5x14, so that leaves the above two choices. Just figured that bigger is better, heh heh heh. Actually as far as the wind is concerned, yeah we get quite a bit of it out here too, but mostly it's big gusts, then nothing for quite a while. So, I don't think that would bother me too much. Thing we have to worry about here is the heat reflections coming off the ground. That is what really bothers you with high power optics out here.

Sounds like you've definately got some nice rifle's there, I am trying to increase my collection, but have been having difficulties, due to lack of funds if you know what I mean.

Happy shooting, riding, whatever!

Mike

 

Andy ... Don't rule out the BAR in .338, if they are still making it. I'm a big fan of the .338 Winchester Magnum caliber. I've had identical rifles in 7mm Rem Mag and .338 Win Mag and I swear the .338 feels like it kicks less to me. Are you looking for a .22 rifle or a pistol? In a rifle the only way to go is a Ruger 10/22, I've got 3 of them ... With simple hand tools you can swap barrels, stocks, triggers, and make a tackdriver out of a 10/22. There are tons of people making custom 10/22 parts. If you're after a .22 pistol, Go for either the Ruger MKII or Browning Buckmark. Both are great pistols, the Ruger has more aftermarket support and the Browning has the same grip angle and controls as a 1911.

Cowboy ... I'm primarily a whitetail hunter, and most of the time I shoot deer that are on the run. So a high powered scope is a liability for me. I've got a Leupold compact 3-9x on my .338 M700, a Burris 2-7x compact on my .308 Model Seven and reserve the higher powered scopes for my varmint and target rifles. Both those rifles are stainless/synthetic "weatherproof" rifles. The highest power scope I've got right now is a 6.5-20x Simmons Presidential on the Ruger LE .223 (same as an M77 MKII varminter in matte blue with a green/black laminated stock). My real sniper rifle is the Rem 700 PSS-DM (Police Sniper Special Detachable Magazine) with the 4.5-14x Leupold tactical scope. I used to have an old Savage 112 varminter in .243 and put one of those big 30mm Tasco Custom Shop 8-32x scopes on it. I didn't like the scope for two reasons, first it was huge, so big it was impractical anywhere but the bench, second the mirage was so bad over 20x that about the highest I ever used it was 24x. One thing I would reccomend is getting Butler Creek flip up scope caps for all your scopes, they protect the lenses and are really nice when the weather turns sour.

I've been a handloader for over 20 years now. Every since I got my first shotgun and found out I couln't afford to shoot it! I haven't reloaded shotgun shells for a long time, but load all my rifle and handgun ammo.

 

Warhawk:
Sounds like you've definately got some nice equipment there. I'll look into the differences between the 6.5-20, 8-25 long range target scopes. I've got a buddy at a gun shop back home who I think will let me take them out and do a "trial" run on them, see which one I prefer. For the target shooting, and also for varmint hunting, I think I'd prefer the mil. dot reticles, so I'm waiting till he gets the 8-25 in, in a few weeks. They had the 6.5-20 with mil. dot, but in a silver finish, which I don't think matches the low luster stainless very well on some rifles. I haven't seen it on the .22-250 Rem. VSSF yet, so I'll have to look into that one a bit closer. I just found out I can get the VSSF in a 28" barrel, so that would be cool too, with the flute, heavy target barrel. Should be pretty accurate once dialed in right.

Sounds like Andy and I are also in the same boat. I'm looking for a good .22 right now as well, for fairly cheap. Thought about buying a used one, then refinishing the stock to look nice, but haven't found one yet that was even worth messing with. For the price difference, I can spend an additional $30 and get a brand new one. Can't really justify buying used for that kind of money. So you think the Ruger 10/22 is the best way to go? I really don't want to spend a whole lot on this one, as it will be used ALOT for pretty much everything, probably abused a bit as well. I take really good care of my hunting rifles, but also don't get to shoot them as much as the price of ammo is so high. Seems to be around $18 a box at minimum anywhere you go for nearly any caliber now, except the .22 LR's. $18 for 20, or $10 for 550, well that's a tough one! Besides, I think a .22 would allow me to take care of the couple trouble making coyotes, and a bunch of the crows, starlings a little better. The neighbors don't like the bark of the .220 swift, or .30-06 too well.

Mike

 

Warhawk, the BAR has drifted into the "to do later" pool. I'm not ruling out anything other than 7mm mag, and thats just because a lot of people already have it and I want something different. Its a hell of a flat shooting gun. I would like the 300 Rem ultra mag, but I'm set on the automatic, so thats out the window.

They still make the .338 BAR. I held one a week ago. It would have cost about $700 with the BOSS. I liked it to say the least. The only thing that really has me going on the .300 is that I can get a 150 grain bullet for it as well as 225 gr. The .338 only goes down to like 200 grain I think. I only hunt whitetail, and a 30.06 would be enough, but if you're paying the cash, might as well get something cool. Who knows, I may end up with a .338, nobody around here has that one.

As far as the .22 is concerned, I'm looking for a rifle. My dad already has a Ruger Mk II. Its not the bull barrel though, and its not near as accurate I don't think. Still a good gun. A 10-22 is exactly what I'm looking for. I will probably get it for christmas. If I didn't think so, I would have already bought one, and I will if I don't get it. I really like the Remington 552, but I also like the option of finding a 50 round clip for the Ruger at a gun show. Always fun to rattle them off in rapid succession just for the hell of it. Only costs a dollar each time.

I doubt I will pursue a target barrel though. I would rarely ever shoot past 50 yards with it, and the stock barrel is accurate enough for that I imagine. I will definitely put a scope on it. Any advice there. I don't care to drop a whole lot of cash on a 22 scope. Maybe $80 maximum. Any ideas on a cheap scope that is still pretty good? I have a 3-9 40x tasco on my 30-30. Cost about $80 at SAM's about 10 years ago. It does the job for the distance I would shoot at. If I get the BAR someday, I'm probably going for a Nikon Monarch UCC. Don't know what power, but it will be at least a 40x 3-9. Everyone here has Leupolds, so I have to be different, even if Leupold is a great scope. I don't see how I could go wrong with a Nikon, but who knows.

 

Andy & Cowboy ... The only scope I've got with any kind of a dot reticle is the Simmons Presidential on my Ruger .223. It's a 1.4 MOA target dot. I was kinda leery about a dot reticle, but I really like it. I even managed to win a couple of medals with that setup at the local rifle range. It's a semi-benchrest league at the 100 yard indoor rifle range in Wichita. You can use a front rest, but not a rear rest, only your body can support it. If I don't screw up I can keep five shots on a dime with the Ruger.

I'm with you on the "stainless" scopes. I prefer a matte black scope, even on a stainless rifle. On that 28" barrel, the longer tube is strictly for higher velocity. A shorter barrel is stiffer and more accurate thana longer barrel. You will lose velocity with a shorter barrel, but accuracy will improve.

A 10/22 is definnately the way to go for a .22 rifle. I like the looks of the Remington 552 in .22 Mag but I'm concerned about the trigger, on a 10/22 it's simple to upgrade to a target trigger. There are also loads of target barrels, stocks, etc. for the 10/22 and lots of gunsmiths doing custom work on them. Even if you don't plan to upgrade your .22, if you go with a 10/22 you'll always have that option if you get interested in building up a precision .22 rifle.

A .22 may kill a coyote, but it's unlikely that you would find the dead coyote without a perfect shot to anchor him. A coyote with a chest shot from a .22LR usually isn't found, at least in my experience. If I'm coyote hunting I'll use a .223.

Andy, I'll bet you would like a .338 even for only Whitetails. Ever heard of a guy named Elmer Keith? HE was an old time guide, outfitter, cowboy, rancher, and gunwriter from Cowboys part of the world ... Salmon, Idaho. He was a fan of big guns, in fact he is credited with inventing the .44 Magnum by heavy loading the .44 Special. Anyway, he did a lot of work with .33 caliber rifles and they were his preference for most American Big Game. I've read all his books I could get my hands on, very enjoyable reading if nothing else. I've been using a .338 on Whitetails since '94, in '93 I lung shot a huge Kansas buck with a 130 grain .270 bullet and would have lost him except for fresh snow that made tracking much easier. Since I switched to the .338, I've been shooting handloads with either the Nosler 200 grain ballistic tip or the Nosler 250 grain parition bullet. Both of these loads will drop a deer in it's tracks and usually cause less bloodshot meat than the .270 did. I think that is because the heavier, slower bullets stay together better and don't fragment on impact. The farthest I've had a deer go after being hit was an 11 point buck in '98 that went about 30 yards after I hit him thru the lungs while at a dead run. That was with the 250 grain loads, the 200's seem to work better on deer. One thing about the .338, plan on taking up handloading if you buy one. Factory .338 ammo is expensive!

As far as scopes go, I've had a Nikon and it was a very nice scope. I wish I had kept that scope when I sold the rifle it was on. My preference is Leupold, but I've had good luck with nearly all the major brands. Burris scopes are very good too, I try to go with a Leupold or Burris on a heavy recoil rifle. Of all the japanese scope brands I've probably had the best luck with Bushnell and the worst with Simmons. but you get what you pay for, a top of the line Simmons, Tasco or whatever is a good scope. And a cheap Simmons etc. is usually only fit for a .22.

If you want a nice, inexpensive .22 scope. Find a Bushnell Banner 4x .22 scope. It comes with tip off rings, has a 1 inch main tube and comes set parallax free at 50 yards, instead of 100 yards like a big game scope. But for all practical purposes, any 1 inch scope would be a good choice for a .22 rifle. If you do go with a 10/22, I'd reccomend that you also invest in a Weaver scope base and some Weaver style rings. The tip off mounting system used on most .22's is a problem waiting to happen.

I guess I got pretty windy this time ... I wonder how long before the moderator asks me to get back on topic?

 

I almost forgot, here are a couple of places to look for good deals on scopes.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/

http://www.natchezss.com/

Natchez has a Tasco 1 inch .22 scope matte finishwith rings on special for $19.99. I may have to order one of those myself!

 

Warhawk:
Wow! Thanks for the info. I'll start looking a little closer at the 10/22's. Thanks for posting those sites below, I took a look there, and they had about the cheapest prices on a few various things that I have seen anywhere. Natchez was also about $100 cheaper than the lowest price I have found yet on the Leupold scope (8.5x25 long range target).

Yeah, I've heard of Mr. Elmer Keith before, read a couple of his books but don't recall the exact titles at this time. He was definately a man among men.

That's interesting you mentioned that bit about the longer barrel having higher velocity, but being less accurate. So you think then I should just stick with the factory length 26" barrel on the model 700 VS SF .22-250? I was looking for the most accurate out of box, and a couple dealers had suggested going with a 28", as it was supposedly more accurate than the 26". I've looked at a few ballistics tables, and it appears that with every inch of extra barrel length past 26", you gain 40 fps. I don't think that 80 fps is anywhere near something to talk about as for gains from a longer barrel. When we're talking something shooting between 3,500-4,000 fps anyway, another 80 fps is really nothing. Besides, at those rates anyway, I think everything will die the same, and I doubt the ground squirrels would be upset if they knew it was 80 fps slower than the longer barrel! Heh heh heh.

Do you have a preference between the .22-250 and the .223? Most people are saying the ammo is cheaper for the .223, but everywhere I've checked, it's actually the other way around. If they're not the same price, I can find .22-250 rounds a few dollars cheaper in some places, so that reasoning really doesn't count for much in my opinion. Ballistics wise, the .22-250 is faster, and with the Ackley improvement, you can crank them up at a hair over that of the .220 swift's.

I'm like Andy, in that I like to be "different" than the rest. Everybody here shoots .223, so I was just thinking maybe I'd go with the .22-250. Yet, everybody I talk to shoots .223 for the same reason-cheaper ammo. I just don't see the savings anywhere though, so I don't know what they're talking about. Problem is, they do have a really nice model 700 VS SF in .223 for $550 -used, with less than a box of shells through it. A brand new rifle in .22-250 will be upwards of close to $700. While it is a good deal, I'd kind of like to wait a bit until I know for sure why the .223 would be better than the .22-250. Any ideas on that one? I guess since the military shoots the .223 AR-15's, reloaded ammo would be cheaper, but I don't like shooting somebody else's reloads myself. Since I'm not loading myself -yet-I will only buy factory ammo. Various hand loads from others can be scary, if not completely known to be what it is.

Anyway, sorry to ramble, and thanks for the help.

Mike