Why are you taking it so personal and getting so bent out of shape. I wasn't talking to you or about you in the first place. I was talking about the industry and the direction it was going and the fact that the factories were ignoring the Utility segment for the sole purpose of making sales. And that thus far the families (wives, smaller people and older kids) have already lost out because of the thurst for big bore and speed, and what will be next. I was stating that these companies should address the Utility segment and quit the big bore and need for speed crap just to make money. All I was saying is that the companies don't care about improving the product or the segment all they care about is money. If technology allows Pontiac to get 1,000 horse power out of a 2,000 cc engine, relatively speaking that is 200 horsepower from a 400 cc engine. That is more than your car or truck. So the need for big bore is not anything other than a selling and marketing tool. And you can get all the power you want or would ever need for a 700 lb machine from 400 or 500 cc engine. And with smaller engines you can get more rev's out of them and the 400 and 500 class are very capbable of reving well into the 10,000 to 12,000 rpm range. And if that is not enought then you can do gear changes to place the power where you need or want it.

And if you are not spending most of your riding time in the 10-20mph then maybe you should think about trading it for a sport type bike because you certainly don't need a 4x4 to travel flat dirt roads, where you can hit higher speeds. You certainly would not travel trails that require 4x4 at very fast speeds. If you want to go fast get a sport bike and ride the dirt roads, if you want to go 4wheeling then get a utility bike. But utility bikes don't need to go fast, they need 4x4, good long travel on suspension and good ground clearance. I will tell you that you would not ride the trails that I ride going very fast. 95% of the trails I ride are below 20mph with over half of that under 10mph, most of the time under 10mph will require 4wheel drive and a lot of that requires low range. Now you tell me, do I require a 700 capable of 60-70 mph?
Why on this earth does anyone want a 4x4 utility to go 70mph - get a freaking sport bike designed for that, because you certainly don't need 4x4 to go 70mph....

Tell me Chumley, what can your 650 do that my 400 can't besides go faster (maybe 10mph) on dirt roads or maybe tow 100lbs more. And I bet I paid about $2000 less when I bought it new. Do you know how many miles I can ride on $2,000 worth of gas.

You better stick with 'lifting heavy things'.

 

i got a 400i 06,and id love to have a can am killer.400 just dont go nearly fast enough through the trees,or down log roads,or through mud holes ect,ect,ect. i think ill make my own decisions about what i ride or kill myself on rather than some else sayin i can or cant. cat wants to make a can am killer so be it,if if dont want one, i wont buy one. but i bet i do. thinkin about gettin a 800 can am any way,but think ill wait to see what cat is gona come up with,nothin wrong with gobs of power ifin one knows how to use it

 

If you are riding easy trails and like the speed then go for it. Maybe you don't even need 4 wheel drive. Generally if a trail allows you to go over 10mph then you probably don't even need 4x4. I don't believe I have ever needed to use 4 wheel drive when ever I was able to go faster than 10mph, 2 wheel drive was fine and got me through ok.

 

WOW!!! Buck.. what is it with you and the "strong back weak mind" thing?
let them buy what ever ATV THEY want. it's not my place or your place to tell them what ATV they need and or want.
everyones needs and wants are diferant. so maybe he likes to have ONE atv that can do 60, and still 4wheel when he wants it to. he has LOW range and can go slow just as you do.. but maybe he doesn't want to spend another 3-5 grand on just a sport atv. so he ownes a 650+ cc so he can go fast.
remember it's HIS choice. not yours. not mine not joe shmoe down the street. HIS and his alone.
there are ALOT of smaller atv out there for the females and kids. look at the Yamaha big bear. honda recon, and i'm sure a list of others.

and as for the factories ignoring the ute segments for just sales??? come on!!!! look at YOUR AC. that is 100% ute. look at mine 500cc.. UTE and it'll go fast. look at the honda Rubicon. UTE, they perform the utility just fine and yet they still have the ability to giddy up down the road.

not every one has the cash flow for 2-3-4 atv's so they get a happy medium. a big boar ute that will pull trees, mud bog, and go fast on the roads, jump everynow and then, they are killing to birds with one atv.

HR..

 

Great point hr, why own 2 atvs when you can buy one to do it all. You can haul stuff all week, and haul *** on the weekend!!! As for ignoring technology, look at the speedrack, digital guages, EFI, locking differentials, all within the last few years, because my 01 400 doesnt have anything these new one have. If companies didnt focus on sales, you wouldnt have to worry about it because they would all be out of business. Back to the point, I would love to see a 900cc prowler, in bright orange(like the tony stewart limited).

 

There is never a "king of the jungle" i ride with a group of friends every 2 weeks and they all ride different brands, none of them breaks down or gets stuck so atvs are almost equal nowadays just some are better in other areas.

 

So true.


Well for starters it goes more than 10mph faster, which is something I want. It pops wheelies with great ease, again...a feature I want. I LOVE wheelies. When I go with big mud tires (because I like to ride in lots of mud) I won't have to worry about not having enough power when the mud gets really thick. I have great power throughout the powerband, when I stab the throttle at 25mph, I take off like a shot. I have ridden 400's, and while they are a capable machine, they by no means have power to spare.

As for that short list of things that it can do compared to a 400, the only real reason that matters is :

I WANTED ONE. That is a good enough reason for me to get a 650. It's good enough for my buddy to choose his Grizzly, other people choose Polaris. I don't want one but they do, and that is what you seem to be missing; people have every right to choose a wheeler that fits their riding style. Choice, plain and simple, no one needs you telling them what they should or should not ride. This is the third post I have made my point, and if you haven't gotten it by now, perhaps I'm way outgunned in a "lifting heavy things" contest.

Stop bashing other people's rides just because you wouldn't buy one.

 

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HR, Maybe people missed my point. My point is I don't care what people drive, or for what reason they drive them. I am saying the factories are putting a lot of effort in big bore where I feel they sould put more effort in improving what they already have. Why stop at 800 put a darn 1500 V twin in one. Right now AC has dropped the 250-300 4x4 - don't you think those were usefull for some people. And for what so someone can pop wheelies and go 90 mph on a utility. I am also saying that maybe the market should split again a develop both "sport utility" for that segment of the market and also have the 'true utility' for that segment. Again, if all someone is going to do is pop wheelies and go 90 miles per hour then there are 2x4's more suited for the task. I wasn't bashing anyone I was bashing the factories and their motives. And I was also saying that because the 250-300 4x4's are now gone there are some (wives, smaller people, and older kids) that don't have something to ride in a 4x4 class. And if it keeps going the way that it is going what is the future of the 4x4 Utility.

Why do some want to take a 4x4 1/2 ton pickup and make a corvette out of it - just go get a corvette for cripes sakes.

What does UTILITY mean, to me it means doing work, going over difficult ground, carrying things, hauling things etc, What does SPORT mean, to me popping wheelies, peeling down dirt roads at 80 mph, sliding around turns, spirited riding, racing etc. I don't see the blend of both with out major compromise. And I am say that if all someone does is SPORT then why do they have a UTILITY. And maybe the factories should just take a sport type bike and put a front differential in it and some 4x4 graphics on the body and turn it loose.

And I don't give a rats azz what anyone thinks, a UTILITY is a utility, is a utility, is a utility and the need for an 800 utility is needless. If the utility job can't be done with the 400-600 size then get a Kubota tractor. And if someone can't go fast enough, or pop big enough wheelies then get a SPORT type that will. There is a correct tool for every job, you certainly don't service your ATV with just a pair of pliers and a hammer.

I think I will just go buy a 'bull-dozer' and put a blown hemi in it and take it to the drag strip and try to take on corvettes. And if you think that is rediculous then just listen to what some are saying in the forums, it isn't too much different.

 

You answered my question exactly, your 650 can out do my 400 in the SPORT area. This is part of the reason I said that the factories should split the UTILITY class to a 'sport utility' and a 'work utility'. You want and like a 'sport utility' and I like and want a 'work utility'. There is nothing wrong in what you want and there is nothing wrong in what I want - they are just different. But the way that the industry is going, it appears that it is being pushed toward the 'sport utility' and I am saying that the factories are forgetting about the people that want a 'work utility' the way that it origionally started out as. And not to drop the 250-300 4x4 in lew of a big bore just for the sole purpose of sales and money, and to improve on the 'work utility' to be better than it already is.
I don't care if the factories want to continue to develop the 'sport utility' I just don't want them to forget about me and others like me that want a 'work utility'. I want the factories to make my ride even better and more capable, more efficent etc.
Can you see someone doing wheelies or going 80 mph on a Kubota tractor.
I am not bashing you as to what you want I am bashing the factories for not continuing to improve on what I and some others want, and what it origionally started out to be, just for the sake of money and sales.
For example, since it is a 4x4 I think the factories could work on and develop a really super front locking differential instead of popping a 950 V twin motor in a 4x4 utility. I think they could also work on a 'cross-linked' suspension system that would take the tippiness out without sacrificing wheel travel. I think they could develop quick change differentials for people that wish to put bigger tires on (or to tow heavier loads) for an occasion and change back for other occasions. I think they could build in mounting brackets for winches for both the front and rear, with and electrical system that could handle it. I think they could develop and better braking system that could be on the drive shafts and not on the wheels. I think they could develop better A-arms for more usable clearance like Yamaha did with the Grizley. I think they could develop an adjustable camber to take out 'roll-under'. I think they could incorporate two mounting points for the top of the shocks to raise or lower the machine to better suit driving styles or conditions and not to solely rely on preloads. I think they could put bigger axles and CV joints in. I think they could work on a better steering setup without having to rely on electrics for power steering. But instead what do they do - they pop a big engine in. Why? Quite simply - SALES and MONEY.
Am I against you doing wheelies and going 80mph - absolutely not. But I don't want AC to forget and not to improve on things that can make a Utility even better as a UTILITY. And does a 'work utility' need to go 70-80mph, I don't think it does but maybe a 'sport utility' does.
And stop trying to climb down my throat, I am not climbing down yours, only the factories.
I hope that my possition is a little more clear to you now.