Please understand that i'm not complaining here,just thoughts on a couple things. 91-250 2 stroke class,we can run a 440cc 4 stroke in it. If these machines are equall in power as we are told,then why can't we run a 250R in the 440 4 stroke class? I Thought it was equall!? Open classes read 251-open cc's for the 2 strokes,4 strokes are 441-open,altho,the rule reads there must be 20% difference in the cc's on a 2 stroke,meaning that a 251-274 cc motor is illegal for a open class,but a 441 cc 4 stroke qualifies for open.My point on this is:It's darn near impossible to run 2 classes with one machine,yet you hear things like "we'll make the sport cheaper",well 2 machines isn't how to do that.For the ppl that dont national race,we get alot of $$ just traveling to these races.Then for the average price of 500$ a race we get a Friday practice (hopefully 20 minutes of track time) then a short practice before the moto's on Saturday and Sunday,plus of course the 2 5-10 minute moto's,thus a maximum of 50 minutes and more realistick time of 30 minutes of track time.After all that,yes there are alot that would like to race 2 classes while there.I haven't met a big bore rider yet that was afraid of a 250cc machine in their class.Now I know there is variables and some can race 2 classes depending on age,gender,and the class that you run.
Age limits: The height thing works at sea-world and others And I'm sure that safety is a main concern for them also.Hopefully in the near future they(AMA and the CPSC)can talk common sence and let there be a height/expierience thing prevail.My boy raced the 12-15 class on his LT-80 for 3 years,9-10-and 11!Yes I lied to all and let my son race,wrong but practical,he came to the nationals at 9 yrs old w/100 races under his belt.Now that he is 12 and legal for the LT-80's,he's too big,and paying 15k for a mod 90 that will compete is not an option(that class needs to be eliminated for a modified stock class).The ATVA director told me that in 1988 there was a government agancy that was against all 3 wheelers and 4 wheelers,wanted them all recalled and never brought into the USA again,this what came into the famous "consent decree",,BUT this is 2002 and there are hundreds of thousands of us w/quads we should be able to have this changed.
JOIN THE ATVA::WE HAVE A VOICE~~ Congrats to Mr.Willet,MR.Willet is the dad of GNC "A" class racer Zac Willet,and now is a ATVA (AMA) congressman.And we need more like him.Mr.Willet is a common sence guy and will the do the best he can at it in the uncommon sence political world of quads.Have a great day[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

You talked about many issuses and I will answer some of them.
1. You might see in the futere 250's being able to run in the 4-stroke classes at the nationals, but if that is done it would make more sense to combine the 2 classes and then only have 1 class if they can run in each other's. I am sure that you don't want that to happen or do you?
2. If you read the rule book on class sizes, I know of nothing about 20% difference. The only thing that is that a engine can be bored .080 pass the class limit of 250cc, which is about 265cc. For a 250 to be legal to run in the open class it must be resleveed and be 10% pass the class limit of 250cc. Which means that it must be 275cc or larger and the engine size must be stamped on the engine. For example; in bike if a bike is made with a 260cc it is legal to run in the open class, but it can not run in the 250 class(KTM or ATK did this for the ISDT). So if Honda does come out come out with a 450 quad this year it is only legal in the open class unless it is desleveed down.
3. One of the things that has been talked about is ways to make the sport cheaper or less expense in the future. One of the ways is to redo the classes and adding the OEM(frame and lower end) classes and maybe doing awaay with the motorcycle engine rule. Maybe!
4. the ATVA did pass and try to change the age and cc limits this pass year and it was vetoed. The ATVA will try again this coming year to try and get this changed about the ages and cc's. You say that there are hundreds and thousands of us, but it is just like the hundreds and thousands of us trying to stop and change the land closures in your and mine area's.
5. You talk about height rules. What about the one that we talked about last summer for the 40 plus class. You must have a 36 in waist and be over 200 lbs for this class. Both you and me meet that.
5. Dave Willot will be a good addition and will help out alot. This is why you need to get elected in your AMA district and become the ATV person for your area so that we can get rid of some of the bike people that are your voice now.

 

Hi Tom and thank you for addressing the issue's,I stand corrected on the 20% thing,I was refering to the 10% rule that you mentioned,simply put I think a 250 should ba allowed in the open class,just my opinion there. Yes I understand that there would be only one class,this is why I mentioned not complaining,as I cannot offer answers,but these things maybe should be considered. On#5,you were mistaken,the 40+ class meant 40+waist,not 36,ya want those skinny dudes to have an unfair advantage <G>,,For those reading Tom and I are friends,sort of an ongoing joke about the 40+ class,as most dont meet the 40+ waist criteria,as easyly as I [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Do we need a moderator for you two!!!!!!

Hay tom how do I look into getting or becoming a rep for are area (louisiana). We have a large mx following, and now have an aboundance of tracks and riders.
Are cross country and hair scramble crowd is very un organized, we need some direction!!
Thanks for any info[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Almost all areas let each track pick there own ref. This causes some problems when you go from one track to the next. I do know of some district or areas that have a ref for that district or series. What I did last year to help my AMA district 18, I had Roger Ansel come in and give a workshop on the AMA rulebook so that all of the clubs/pomoters maybe were on the same page on some or most items. Then 2 weeks later we had a problem with someone that did not make the meeting and he made a call wrong and it was covered at the workshop.
LT80 isn't it also in the rule that the track must be watered before the 40plus class get's to ride? Also, I missed making it to you truck at LL last year so that I could get some of that good food and drink that you had. I was to busy with the age thing again and trying to get the racing in before dark. We will talk again this year. I think that I will be camping out this year at each event or until I get hung by someone like you. Would you do that to a nice person like me?

 

I figured since I have met both LT-80 and Tprender in real life and know both I'd put my 2 cents in. I might have to unretire if that 36+ waist rule goes into effecr, too bad I got a few years left for the age requirement. As far as the youth quads go I totally understand LT-80's complaints. I will travel to most of the Nationals this year with a Mod 70 class racer and totally know what kind of $ it takes to build/buy one of these machines. I also have skinned my knuckles many times wrenching on it. Now when we go to local events and run a "youth exhibition" class we get all the stares of angry parents as we pull the "high dollar" machine out of the trailer. Sad thing is this machine would be the only class legal machine if they had AMA rules. All the other kids race LT-80's (mostly) but couldn't run them if they were at an AMA event. I don't mean to rant, this kid is fortunate that his parents will pay for a quad of this caliber so he can race and possibly be the Pro class winner of 2012 (one never knows). I would just hate to see the parents that have already spent the $ it takes to build/buy on of these trick little mod 70 and mod 90 class machines be left out in the cold and have $15,000 quads turn into $4000 quads overnight because there class was eliminated or radically changed. Although I feel that some sort of grass roots youth class would be a good step for the ATVA events I would also like to see the mod classes continue. If a racer wants to step up and be competitive on a full size machine when he/she turns 16 I'd rather have them come from a modified quad that much closer duplicates the handling and suspension of a bigger machine. I am sure I will have people agree and disagree with my opinions on this but I had to at least express them. LT_80 and Tprender, I hope to see you both at the MX Opener in Macon,GA.

 

On the size issue…
The series in New England up until this coming year had a different age bracket for the youths. 0-90 cc was up to 12 and 91 –300 had a 12 min age. We had two kids who ran modded minis and we ran them with the women class. We also had so many kids on the gate of different ages that there was an A kids class (ages 8 and 9) and then the other smaller kids were in another “B” class. This was done to stop the faster (older) kids from lapping the slower ones.

Now we must follow the AMA rules and the entire kids class will be shot. I wish the rules would change to a height requirement. If my son can ride a roller coaster when he is over 48 inches tall, but still has to ride on a 50cc machine, that is a joke. Just the other day he sat on my R and was able to stand on the pegs, hold the handlebars and not have his butt on the seat. Mind you he is only 7 and this test was when the quad was in the garage. But in 5 years he will be able to legally race a 90 cc machine? I really don’t think he would fit.

In our series the classes are broken up into motor type. 2 strokes A, B, and C along with 4 strokes A, B, and C. We have an open class (A, B and C) as well, which is what I run in. I started in the open class with my Banshee and just stayed there with my R (bored 80 over) for the last two years. Simply because I wanted to race against other machines. I think the idea of having the 2 stroke and 4 stroke classes combine would be a better option. Unless each class is scared of the other one? J

I would like to see a combined class along with the separate classes at each level. Sort of a stepping ground to move up similar to the pro-am. It would look like this:

Open Requirements:
2 stroke anything over 250cc.
4 stroke anything over 400cc
Any frame or mod welcome.

Limited Requirements:
Same cc size as current 250 class. (80 over stock engine size)
Any frame or mod allowed as long as cc size stays.

Production Requeirments:
Must be stock motor and stock frame. Suspension mods are allowed. No maximum cc set but must be stock motor up to max bore. So a stock Raptor (no big bore) can run against a 400ex, or Cannondale on the track.

Set Up Class Requirements:
Only the top current class rider can run with the lower above class riders. Example, top 10 C class riders of any division above can run with the lower 10 B class riders. This class is not a huge purse class, but more of a proven ground for people to move up or down.

On race day there would be the following:
C or Novice - Open, Limited, Production and Step Up
B or Ametuer - Open, Limited, Production and Step Up
A or Expert - Open, Limited, Production and Step Up
Pro - Open, Limited, and Production

For the kids have :
0-50 cc for kids 6 and up under 48 inches
70cc to 90 cc (stock frames and motors) for kids 6 and up and over 48 inches.
70cc to 90cc modded mini class for kids 10 and up, over 48 inches.
91 – 300 air cooled class for kids 12 and up and over 48 inches.