I am shopping for a new quad for my five year old son. We just sold his '00 Suzuki LT50. He was a little tall for it when we got it this past spring. He mastered quickly and now needs something with suspension. I have been considering the LT80, because of it's reputation for reliability. Does anyone know much about the Yamaha Badger80? I like the idea of it being a 4-stroke, having shaft drive and 3-speed auto clutch tranny. This would give him low end power for take off, or generally putting around without having to get the rpm's up like on the 2-strokes. There would be virtually no maintenance on the driveshaft compared to the chain. And, I like the idea of having true engine braking going down hills. If anyone has anything to offer on this subject I would greatly appreciate it.

Confused Dad.....

'01 Rancher 4x4 ES
'01 80-90cc ??????

 

Exmxer,

I have been considering a gas-powered mini-quad for my son for some time now (since the day he was born if you listen to my wife tell it). He is currently 4-1/2 years old, 3-feet 8-inches tall, and weighs about 40 pounds. He has been riding a battery powered Peg Perego “quad” for two years now. He has also ridden on my Bayou 400 4x4 seated in front of me, and he has ridden on my Bayou 300 4x4 seated in front of me, or seated in front of my 15-year old daughter. He has a good grasp of how to ride (he pushes on the handlebars of the Kawis at just the right moment and in just the right amount to help steer when he is seated in front of me) and he should be ready for a gas-powered mini-quad next spring when he turns five, if indeed he is not ready now.

I have looked at the mini-quads from Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, E-Ton, Kasea (both the 40cc and 50cc models), and Polaris (made by E-Ton to Polaris specs). I also looked at the Kawasaki Bayou 220 but it is not a true mini-quad, rather it is more of a ¾-scale quad and it is presently way too big for my son. Since I plan on keeping whatever I buy for a long time, the low price of the Chinese imports was an initial attraction. But parts and service may be problematic down the road, whereas five years from now the Big Three Japanese manufacturers will most likely still be around.

Of the Big Three Japanese minis, the Honda TRX90 is presently too big for my son. That leaves the Yamaha Badger 80 and the Suzuki LT80. Either one fits him well, though the Badger is slightly larger than the LT80. In my back issues of Dirt Wheels, I’ve located two shootouts between the Honda and the Suzuki. The Suzuki won the first one in the August ‘96 issue, and the Honda won the second one in the August ’98 issue. Both shootouts specifically referred to an earlier shootout (which I don’t have access to) that had included a Yamaha Badger, and both pointedly reminded the reader that the Yamaha had finished a distant third against the Honda and Suzuki. The shootouts also noted Yamaha’s refusal to give Dirt Wheels another Badger for subsequent testing.

The Badger is the only “big-mini”, i.e., for kids 12 to 16, that does not have independent A-arm front suspension. The Badger has a solid front axle and swing-arm front suspension that could allow one front wheel to come off the ground. It is not a setup I care for, and I have eliminated the Badger from consideration because of it.

When I visited the various dealerships with my son in tow to do "test sits", I was primarily interested in the ergonomics of each unit, so I took a tape measure with me.

The three measurements that I thought were critical are:

(1) The "inside" width of the handlebars. By which I mean the distance from the inside lip of the right handgrip to the inside lip of the left handgrip. This measurement determines how wide he must spread his arms to put his hands on the handlebars. On the LT80 it was 18-inches. On the Badger and the Polaris Sportsman 90 it was 19-inches. On the TRX90 it was 20-inches. As a comparison benchmark, on the Bayou 220 it is 21-inches, on my Bayou 300 it is 22-inches, and on my Bayou 400 it is 23-inches.

(2) The width of the seat directly over the footpegs. This measurement determines how far he would have to spread his legs in order to straddle the seat. On the LT80 it is 6-1/2 inches. On the Badger it is 7-inches. On the TRX90, the E-Ton 90, and the Polaris Sportsman 90 it is nearly 9-inches. As a comparison benchmark, on the Bayou 220 it is 10-inches, on my Bayou 300 and 400 it is 11-inches.

(3) The "combined inseam distance". By which I mean the distance from the top of the left footpeg up over the seat and down to the top of the right footpeg. This measurement determines how well he will be able to move around on the quad as the terrain varies and still keep both feet on the footpegs. On the LT80 it is 41-inches. On the Badger and the Polaris Sportsman 90 it is 42-inches. On the TRX90 and E-Ton 90 it is 44-inches. As a comparison benchmark, on the Bayou 220 it is 46-inches, on my Bayou 300 and 400 it is 48-inches.

I did put my son on both the E-Ton 40 (Rascal) and E-Ton 50. The Rascal was nearly the same size as the battery powered Peg Perego quad he rides now. There was simply no point in considering it, he would out grow it too quickly.

The other problem with all three E-Ton quads was the shape of the seat. To my mind it is tapered the wrong way. It is narrow at the back, and wide at the front. This allows the child precious little leg room in which to maneuver. The LT80 is just the opposite. The seat is very wide at the back and middle so the child has a nice place to sit, and then it tapers quickly from the middle to the front to allow the child room to stand on the pegs naturally instead of with a bow-legged stance. The Honda and Polaris seats are relatively straight with little or no discernable taper.

You didn't say what stature your kids are, but when you take them to do "test sits", you may want to take a tape measure with you and keep my three key measurement criteria in mind.

Ergonomically the LT80 offers the best immediate fit for my son. It is one he will not have to grow into, and it is one that he will not grow out of too soon (especially considering that Big Brother and the Nanny State would have me restrict him to nothing larger until he is sixteen anyway). For me, the LT80 was initially the hands-down winner.

But in the thread “Kid ATV, What Are My Choices?” by Moose1, where I posted similar comments, someone suggested I look at the Polaris minis. I responded that I had “nagging doubts” about Polaris quality and that I was unwilling to bet $2000 of my money on one. Later that day I reconsidered my comments. I knew that the Polaris minis were made by E-Ton. Since I had initially considered E-Ton, it only seemed fair to at least look at the Polaris minis.

In the meantime, I had negotiated a deal with a Suzuki dealer to buy an LT80 and I was supposed to sign the papers that same evening. I put the SP90 out of my mind and headed off to the Suzuki dealer to do the paperwork. So there I am checkbook in hand sitting in the Suzuki dealer’s office waiting for him to tally the final dollar amount. He hands me the invoice so I can verify the various amounts, and I notice that the invoice is for a 2000 model LT80. I had specifically talked with the salesman about a 2001 model LT80. I indicated to the dealer that a mistake had been, as I had specifically requested (and thought) I was buying a 2001. He told me he couldn’t give me the same deal (a $100 discount from list price) on a 2001. I put my checkbook away, got up from my chair, politely thanked him for his time, and walked to my car. The following day I went to the nearest Polaris dealer (about 25 miles away) and looked at a SP90.

While the SP90 is made by E-Ton, it is ergonomically a little different from the E-Ton 90 from which it is derived. Most importantly, on the SP90 the “combined inseam distance”, at 42-inches, is 2-inches shorter, and the seat, while wider than I would like, is not tapered. When my son sits on the SP90, his feet almost rest flat on the floorboards.

The SP90 also has wider tires in back than does the LT80, 18x9.5x8 vs. 19x7x8. The SP90 also has a wider track (the distance from the center of the left tire to the center of the right tire) than does the LT80, 27-inches front and rear vs. 23-inches front and 25-inches rear. This should make the SP90 a little less prone to tip-overs than the LT80. The SP90 also has a PWC-style tether-kill switch.

The SP90 also has front and rear cargo racks, which as near as I can tell is a first for a mini-quad. This feature is appealing to me because it is appealing to my son. His Peg Perego battery powered quad has a small plastic “cargo rack” in back that he puts things on, and then bungees in place with a small bungee cord I gave him. Like most small boys, he wants to do what he sees Dad doing. In fact, he has already pestered me for a small cart that he can pull behind him, just like I pull the garden cart behind my Bayou.

The cargo racks on the SP90 have a rated carrying capacity of 10 pounds front and 20 pounds rear. While my son would be unlikely to ever carry anything bigger than that, I did make a comment to the dealer that they looked like they could carry more. The dealer then completely surprised me by sitting on the front rack and bouncing up and down a half dozen times. The dealer was a stocky man who weighed at least 225 pounds. Later in our conversation I inspected the front rack and front suspension, they seemed to have suffered no discernable damage.

I test drove the LT80 in a paved parking lot. I test drove the SP90 on a gravel road. Both machines were quite peppy when carting my 190-pound carcass around, though I think I would have to give the nod to the Suzuki for having the most power. Both machines had (to my mind) improperly adjusted brakes. Both machines were difficult to stop using just the front brakes, and both machines locked the rear wheels with only a little pressure on the rear brake. The thumb throttle on the LT80 was the easiest to operate by a large margin. The thumb throttle on the SP90 was nearly twice as stiff as the thumb throttle on the SP500 HO parked next to it on the showroom floor. This is undoubtedly the work of the Polaris product liability lawyers, and I would have to clip a few coils from the throttle return spring if I bought the SP90.

A note about the tires on each one, they don’t measure up to their nominal size. The LT80’s 19x7x8 Dunlop fronts and rears actually measure 17.5x6x8. The SP90’s 19x7x8 Duro fronts actually measure 17.5x6x8. The SP90’s 18x9.5x8 Duro rears actually measure 17.5x8x8.

I am now in the same quandary that I was a few weeks ago, I still don’t know what to buy. The SP90 is $300 cheaper then the LT80, $2199 vs. $2499, and it has some features that I really like. For the moment my buying decision has been placed on hold until next Spring, and pending an ATV magazine test of the SP90.

I’d love to see Dirt Wheels do a Honda, Polaris, Suzuki, Yamaha mini-quad shootout between now and next Spring, it would make my decision a little easier. But if they don’t, then I will have to decide between the LT80 and the SP90. I like the LT80’s reliability and performance track record. I like the SP90’s features, but I have deep concerns about Polaris’ (E-Ton’s) reliability. By the time my tax-refund arrives next April, I will have bought one or the other. When I do, I will post here what I bought, why I bought it, and what my initial experience with it was like. Until then, I will continue to weight each one in the balance.

Army Man

 

Hey Army Man. Thank you for your reply. I must say it is very well thought out and I do appreciate it. I did not know about the straight axle on the Badger. I think I agree that this would not be a good setup, especially for a kid. One straigt axle on a quad is enough. Our situations are amazingle similar. I have been beating my head against a wall for a while now. I previously owned a Polaris Sportsman 500 and encountered numerous problems with it. Thus, my reservations about the SP90. About 2-3 months ago I bought a Honda Rancher 4x4ES. I researched it the best that I could before jumping in and so far I'm extremely happy with my choice. I feel I have a reliable fun to ride quad. I want no less for my son. I remember how quickly my days turned bad when, out on the trail, I would break down and have to be towed back to the truck. I am 34 years old and didn't like it very well, I can imagine what my 5 year old would think if it happens to him. I know that anything can happed with any brand. Basically you are just playing the odds.

As it stands right now, I am leaning toward the Suzuki LT80. If I can't get a manual transmition so that he will have true engine braking, then I at least want him to have a foot brake that he can just stand on in bad situation. I don't like having to rely on hand brakes only for a 5 year old kid. One problem I am facing is similar to yours I think. When my little boy saw that Sportsman 90 for the first time, his eyes lit up like I have never seen before. Up until this time he had sat on LEM Cayman and Condors, Alpha Sports, E-tons, TRX90s, Badgers,and also rode several times an LT80 that belongs to his cousin. But all he talks about is that 4-wheeler with front and rear racks and headlights and tail lights. He doesn't even know that the headlights don't work. They are just there for show, although I hear that they are going to offer light kits for them in the future. I did read somewhere that one of the magazines is doing a test on the SP90 in next months issue. I think it was Dirt Wheels, but I'm not sure. The problem I have is we already sold my son's '00 Suzuki LT50, so now he hasn't got anything to ride. I imagine I will be buying something very soon.

I am new to this forum, but have learned a great deal in a short time from it. I,too, will post my initial experience with whatever quad we choose.

One last thing, I have posted this in other areas of the forum, but I'm not sure how much it has been viewed. My son and I both have helmet mounted radios made by Chatterbox. These radios have been the best thing for our rides together. We can continually comunicate with each other while we ride, and it seems to have boosted my sons confidence a great deal just knowing he can talk to daddy while he is riding. I set the radio on voice activated so he doesn't have to push any buttons, all he has to do is talk. I recomend this to anyone and everyone......

Thanks,

Rick

 

Rick - Except for current age of kids (and me) we have a lot in common.

I have 3 sons - 8,7 and 3. Got a LT50 2 1/2 years ago for the oldest and middle (then 6 and 5). 6 year old loved it, 5 year old was lukewarm about atving. LT50 was a good yard bike for that year. Last year made many attempts to take it out on the trails with me. We had a few good rides and many tows back to the truck, an LT50 just can't do trails. My oldests abilities had far surpassed the abilities of the machine.

Sold the LT50 this spring and after much searching found a used TRX90. Read the same shootouts as above, other than being bullet-proof with shaft drive, the Badger was a far distant third. Honda placed first in 2 shootouts as stated in armymans post. Basic opinion was that LT80 was better to race(more mods and it has its own class) and was better in sand. Honda TRX90 was a better trail bike.

We went to a friends farm last weekend and had 4 8-9 year olds riding. One LT80, TRX90, Breeze 125 and Honda Recon 250 (too big for a kid IMHO).The LT80 was faster than the TRX off the start but would fall back in the long run or in hill climbs. Breeze was bigger and had more power as you would expect for the x-tra cc's. In general quality and sturdiness I would put the Honda first, The LT80 a close 2nd and the Breeze a definate third. TRX was '96, LT80 a '99 and Breeze only a few weeks old. The breeze was the biggest of the bunch. It could handle a teenager for size but I expect that my son will be ready for a larger machine by his early teens. TRX90 was much larger than LT80. This was very obvious when you put them side-by-side.

The big decisions are size, price and transmissions. As much as I liked the Honda, I just couldn't bring myself to drop $2,700 for a kids quad. I lucked out and got a used '96 that had never been on a trail, with a rear rack for $1,400. After looking and talking to dealers, I would rather pay $2,000-2,200 for a few year old TRX than a new E-ton. Not that the E-ton is bad, just that the Honda was a sturdier bike. BTW, I noticed that there is a '00 E-ton for sale in the classifieds for $1,400.

The size of the TRX fits my 8 and 7 year olds well. The performance over the LT50 makes it so much more fun that the 7 year old now loves ATV's too. 8 year old drives very well - it took a few weeks to get him set on shift points. 7 year old is getting there. I feel the bike is safe for him as we call him the one gear wonder(put it in 2nd and let him go). Both boys steer and brake well. I have tall kids and expect the 90 to last them until they're 12-13. I'll start the youngest on the 90 when he is ready - probably 6 or so. I also expect to get a 2nd kid quad so both boys can ride at once. Most likely this will also be a TRX90, although I wouldn't rule out the LT80 if I got a deal.

The radios are a great idea - I consider ours a necessary piece of equipment.

I don't know what type of riding you plan to do with your son but you live just north of me so I assume the trails are similar. The TRX90 was my first choice for this kind of riding. My only hesitation other than the 'new' price was the lack of electric start. This has not been a problem as it's an easy starting quad. My 8 year old can start it, 7 year old can't yet.

The only other comment I have is that several of the dealers I talked to experimented with selling some of the 'new' brands - ie. E-ton, Sunduro and the like. Most cancelled out on keeping the dealership, I believe by a combination of lack of quality/durability and the lack of protected dealer zones.

Good luck!

JB

 

I am a die hard LT-80 fan. we have 2 of them for our oldest boys. 5&4 years old. they both started on a honda trx70, but neither boy ever wanted to shift. this was a problem when trail riding & needing constant gear changes. the lt80's have allowed us to hit the trails at a good rate of speed, and the bikes are bulletproof. check out my webpage for some pictures.

buy the suzuki & thank me later

 

Hey 2Punksdad,

Thanks for the reply. My son and I enjoyed the pictures at your site. Doesn't look like too long before one of the big guys is ready to take over mom's ride. My son especially liked that shot. I asked him if he was ready to give my Rancher a try, he said(laughing), not yet....

I have some questions about the LT80. I think the purple and white is about a '98 model. Is that right? How about the black and blue? Also, can you tell me a little more about the lights, like where did you get them, how much, and are they hard to wire in? Does the stock electrical system support them OK? Also, the tires....Did these tires give the quad more side to side stability, without making it too hard to handle?

As it stands right now, the LT80 is what I'm leaning toward. I like the ability to add lights. This also appeals to my son. Do you know of anyone that has ever put racks on one? My son would like that, since he has grown up on my utility quads. Thanks for the info.....

Rick

'01 Rancher 4x4ES
'01 80-90cc ??????

 

exmxer,
let me try to answer your questions........glad you liked the webpage.

the purple & white is a 98, the blue & black is a 1990 or 91, with maier aftermarket plastic.

the lights are "pilot" amber driving lights. I got them at autozone for 19.99 a set. they are super easy to wire up. they come with an "under the dash" toggle switch. This setup was not what I wanted, so I purchased a flush mount rocker switch & mounted it opposite the key switch on the front plastic. the lights can be screwed to the front plastic, but I mounted them with 2 sided tape (came with the lights). the lights work very well for a ride that runs into dark, and you need a little light on the way home, BUT they are not for long night time rides. They WILL drain the battery after about 30 minutes of continued use. Maybe if you only used one light as opposed to two, they would not kill the battery? My kids insisted on 2 lights....I think they wanted the 400EX look (like dad).

The tires on the '98 are fast trekker 18.5 X 9..........they help the stability of the machine 100% but they take away a tiny bit of top end.

as far as racks go.none available for the LT that I know of. however, polaris makes 2 models of their mini quad, one has racks. I didn't like the polaris for one reason mainly........they have the same engine as the cheapo quads that are popping up all over the place. Same quad with different plastic & a different decal can be purchased for a few hundred less elsewhere. the airbox on these quads is located behind the left front tire where it is sure to catch hell!

I decided to stick with the time tested LT-80. The 1990 model only cost me 500.00 used (we have had it since 97), and I got a great deal on the 98 machine too. I would not hesitate to buy another if I ever needed to.

good luck in your decision.........hope this info helps

 

2punksdad,

Your comments about rear tires are interesting. The Polaris SP90 I'm interested in has 18x9.5x8 Turf Tamers on the back. They look like they would load up with mud very quickly. The LT80 comes with 19x7x8 Dunlops, but you apparently replaced them with the 18x9.5x8 Fast Trekkers and only suffered a slight loss of top end. GBC Shredders are also available in size 18x9.5x8, but they don't seem to have the same degree of "open tread" as do the Fast Trekkers.

None of the tires on the LT80 or SP90 measure up to their nominal size as printed on the sidewall. What are the actual measurements of tire height and width on the Fast Trekkers?

Another tire that seems like it might be a good mud tire for a mini-quad is the Pure Sports 20x10x8 Bandit A/T. If it also fails to measure up to its nominal size (as do most ATV tires) and comes close in size to the 18x9.5x8 Turf Tamer, Fast Trekker, or Shredder, it might provide more floatation and better traction in the mud. This tire is probably at the very limit of what is possible for a mini-quad, but it looks interesting enough to try.

Have your boys done any mild mudding with their LT80s? If so, how did the Fast Trekkers do as compared to the stock Dunlops? Did you consider a larger tire than the 18x9.5x8 for the rear?

Thanks, Army Man

 

I couldn't resist adding a few comments of my own. I bought an Impuls90 (now E-ton) for my nine year old which is now ten and a half. We've owned the quad for almost two years and have not had any problems with it at all.

The airbox, as mentioned above, does sit rather low in the fenderwell. It contains a well oiled sponge similar to a lawn mower setup and seems to fair ok even through the toughest water\mud crossings.

The two-stroke power is more than enough at all rpm levels and hillclimbs very well. He's actually scared me several times when I ran up a hillclimb to find him right on my tail with the hammer down! Man, does that put your heart in your throat. It seems to be a tank in all situations and so far, thank God, we've never come close to an accident. When I shopped around, the Eton's a-arms and rear axle were much wider than the lt's but the length is almost identical.

My one and only concern for any of the mini's is the braking systems. All but the lt80 seem to have only hand brakes...which I think is a lousy design. When the youngsters are tired on a day's ride, the brakes are the first thing to go. At least the lt gives the true feeling of rear braking that will train them for bigger machines. Make sure that the calipers aren't too large for your son to grip. Many times, the child will have to remove his thumb to stretch out and grab the calipers. My six year old has this problem and I'll only let him ride on a flat surface....no trails! The adjustments are rather simple for the brakes, but like most, are shoes and water\muck is a killer on the rears.

Ours didn't come with lights back then. The industry is making nice improvements to all the mini's. If I had it to do over, I'd take a hard look at the Polaris 90 because of the similarity to the eton. Never owned an lt, but love the brakes on it. Racing....who's gonna race?...not my child! There's a time and place for everything and right now, we're having loads of family fun! Good luck to you....go with your gut feeling. There are pics scattered on my site as well. Make sure you cherrish a Kodak moment with your kids as well.

 

The stock tires that come on the kids quads are good for riding around the yard but thats about it. If you every take you kids to trails & mud then better tires are in order.

We put 20x10x8 bandits mounted Douglas aluminum rims, the original tires were 19x7x8. The bandits are a cross between mud tire & trail tire. They have a very good tread pattern for mud. The E-ton can now go more places now than before. The wider tires made the quad more stable for off-camber type riding.

The Suzuki LT-80 is narrow & needs wider tires or spacers.