Difficult decision for 1st time ATV owner
#11
01-29-2001, 07:07 PM
CanadianViking:
Nice to see you've done your homework! I'd have to agree with most of what you say, and with a few others posting as well. My Dad and I were faced with the same situation, and ended up like CatLance, with 2 AC 500 Auto's. I love them, excellent machines, very tough, dependable and not only are they very smooth riding, but they can work like hell as well. However, since you mentioned needing two auto's, one smaller for your wife, AC is probably out. They don't make an auto smaller than the 500. I do agree with what CatLance says though, for you, I'd definately buy bigger than what you think you need.
Your concerns for the true four wheel drive are may well be justified. Of the machines you mentioned, Polaris is the only one with true four wheel drive. Keep in mind though, you are required a 1/5th rear wheel slippage for the fronts to engage. Other machines with true four wheel drive are the Bombardier Traxter line (new with the auto, though might not be the way to go for an experienced rider-(see review atv homepage)), the Suzuki KingQuad (?) and the AC 250 and 300 can be modified for true four wheel drive.
How important is selectable 2/4wd? In all honesty, I absolutely love the ability to shift between 2 and 4 wheel drive. If this might be of importance to you, Honda is now out. On a side note though among the things you mention, I'd like to see Honda machines step up a bit on the technological advancements myself. I too considered a 450ES, but with no disc breaks, no selectable 2/4wd, not as good of suspension travel or ground clearance and what "felt" to be a smaller machine, I chose against it. The Ruby may have a neat new trick tranny, but again, where's the selectablilty, disc breaks, etc.
The SP500 was the third option I had before choosing the 'Cat. Overall, I really liked the machine, but the necessary rear wheel slippage raised some concern, as well as the 30 + (?) grease zerks which need to be maintained faithfully for optimal performance, and the $1,200 increase in price over the 'Cat were too much to consider. For your needs-buying from the same manufacturer, auto's, and larger for you, smaller for her, I'd probably go with the Polaris lineup. As far as the reliablity goes, I think that's basically just a bad rap they had from years in the past. I think that with the large number of atv's being bought and sold in the past couple years alone, not to mention Arctic Cat, and now Bombardier coming into the picture, more pressure has been placed on Polaris to build a more reliable machine. As a result, I don't think you'll have to worry about breakdowns near as much as you would have in the past.
Yamaha has the auto 400cc Kodiak (for her) and the larger 600cc Grizzly (for you) if that was an option to consider. These are nice machines as well, though you lack the true four wheel drive, compared to the Polaris line. I'm not sure how much that "true" four wheel drive is really necessary though in all honesty. My 'Cat 500 is not considered a "true" four wheel drive, as it does not contain a locking front differential, but I've gone everywhere I have ever wanted to go on my machine with no problems what so ever. I had the opportunity to ride with an SP500 once, and easily went every where he did, and with my 27" Bi/Tri Claws, was able to go even more places. He did have one problem going down a steep muddy slope with a sharp turn at the bottom, and nearly rolled the machine due to not being able to get the front wheels to engage. I don't know if this was rider error/lack of experience in that type of situation, or just a typical problem with the needed rear wheel slippage, but that is one thing that concerns me with the system. Granted, it might not be a problem at all, but I like to know for sure that when pushing a lever, I'm in four wheel, no slippage required.
I don't know if any of this helps at all, but basically, you're looking at some very nice machines, all very good at what they're designed for. Some have better or nicer features than others while others might be considered more reliable. If the decision were to come strait down to pure "true" four wheel drive, basically -I might get some heat for this one but-I really honestly don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be. Yeah a locker would be great in an uneven muddy slope where you'd have one wheel in the air, but I've been in those same situations many times with my 'Cat and always pulled through with ease and again, I don't have a locker. Chances are most of the time in most circumstances, the standard front differential of all the machines out there are enough to get you where you want to go.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling here but hopefully there might be something worth thinking about. Sounds like you already know this, but be sure to test ride each in question to see which "feels" the best to you. All the features and qualities in the world won't amount to anything if you aren't comfortable while riding the machine.
Best of luck,
Mike
Nice to see you've done your homework! I'd have to agree with most of what you say, and with a few others posting as well. My Dad and I were faced with the same situation, and ended up like CatLance, with 2 AC 500 Auto's. I love them, excellent machines, very tough, dependable and not only are they very smooth riding, but they can work like hell as well. However, since you mentioned needing two auto's, one smaller for your wife, AC is probably out. They don't make an auto smaller than the 500. I do agree with what CatLance says though, for you, I'd definately buy bigger than what you think you need.
Your concerns for the true four wheel drive are may well be justified. Of the machines you mentioned, Polaris is the only one with true four wheel drive. Keep in mind though, you are required a 1/5th rear wheel slippage for the fronts to engage. Other machines with true four wheel drive are the Bombardier Traxter line (new with the auto, though might not be the way to go for an experienced rider-(see review atv homepage)), the Suzuki KingQuad (?) and the AC 250 and 300 can be modified for true four wheel drive.
How important is selectable 2/4wd? In all honesty, I absolutely love the ability to shift between 2 and 4 wheel drive. If this might be of importance to you, Honda is now out. On a side note though among the things you mention, I'd like to see Honda machines step up a bit on the technological advancements myself. I too considered a 450ES, but with no disc breaks, no selectable 2/4wd, not as good of suspension travel or ground clearance and what "felt" to be a smaller machine, I chose against it. The Ruby may have a neat new trick tranny, but again, where's the selectablilty, disc breaks, etc.
The SP500 was the third option I had before choosing the 'Cat. Overall, I really liked the machine, but the necessary rear wheel slippage raised some concern, as well as the 30 + (?) grease zerks which need to be maintained faithfully for optimal performance, and the $1,200 increase in price over the 'Cat were too much to consider. For your needs-buying from the same manufacturer, auto's, and larger for you, smaller for her, I'd probably go with the Polaris lineup. As far as the reliablity goes, I think that's basically just a bad rap they had from years in the past. I think that with the large number of atv's being bought and sold in the past couple years alone, not to mention Arctic Cat, and now Bombardier coming into the picture, more pressure has been placed on Polaris to build a more reliable machine. As a result, I don't think you'll have to worry about breakdowns near as much as you would have in the past.
Yamaha has the auto 400cc Kodiak (for her) and the larger 600cc Grizzly (for you) if that was an option to consider. These are nice machines as well, though you lack the true four wheel drive, compared to the Polaris line. I'm not sure how much that "true" four wheel drive is really necessary though in all honesty. My 'Cat 500 is not considered a "true" four wheel drive, as it does not contain a locking front differential, but I've gone everywhere I have ever wanted to go on my machine with no problems what so ever. I had the opportunity to ride with an SP500 once, and easily went every where he did, and with my 27" Bi/Tri Claws, was able to go even more places. He did have one problem going down a steep muddy slope with a sharp turn at the bottom, and nearly rolled the machine due to not being able to get the front wheels to engage. I don't know if this was rider error/lack of experience in that type of situation, or just a typical problem with the needed rear wheel slippage, but that is one thing that concerns me with the system. Granted, it might not be a problem at all, but I like to know for sure that when pushing a lever, I'm in four wheel, no slippage required.
I don't know if any of this helps at all, but basically, you're looking at some very nice machines, all very good at what they're designed for. Some have better or nicer features than others while others might be considered more reliable. If the decision were to come strait down to pure "true" four wheel drive, basically -I might get some heat for this one but-I really honestly don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be. Yeah a locker would be great in an uneven muddy slope where you'd have one wheel in the air, but I've been in those same situations many times with my 'Cat and always pulled through with ease and again, I don't have a locker. Chances are most of the time in most circumstances, the standard front differential of all the machines out there are enough to get you where you want to go.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling here but hopefully there might be something worth thinking about. Sounds like you already know this, but be sure to test ride each in question to see which "feels" the best to you. All the features and qualities in the world won't amount to anything if you aren't comfortable while riding the machine.
Best of luck,
Mike
#12
01-29-2001, 07:22 PM
Guess I replied too soon, could have helped Catlance with this one. Anyway, like I said in my other post, no, the 'Cat is not considered a "true" four wheel drive, but as I also said, I've never found anywhere I couldn't go where this was an issue. I have always had all four wheels pulling, even digging four holes in the ground, and even with one wheel in the air-while it's not "true" four wheel drive, I don't see any possibilty that it could be considered a three wheel machine, like you referred to considering Honda's from a while back.
The suspension on the 'Cat is awesome to say the least. It is an independant front double A-arm, with a patented rear swing axle. There is 7.2" wheel travel at all four corners, with something like 9.2" of ground clearance claimed. Since you just menioned sport quads were out because you need racks, AC has the highest rated rack capacity of any atv on the market, at 100 lbs. front, and 200 lbs. rear, for combined 300 lbs. total rating. Towing is rated at 1050 lbs, if that is of any consideration.
Is it suitable for mountain riding? Oh yeah, that's all I ride in. I have roughly 1,200 acres in northern washington, about 30 minutes south of the canadian border, and have been doing a lot of logging with my 'Cat since I bought them. I am always towing logs, brush, whatever around all over the place, all while turning 27" Bi/Tri Claws and carrying 100+ lbs. on the front rack at all times, along with between 150-250 lbs. on the rear rack most of the time. The pure torque of the 'Cat is unstoppable, and in 4 wheel low range, the engine breaking down steep grades is great.
If speed is an issue for you, you might want to shy away from the 'Cats. They are more geared for utility purposes, and are consequently not the fastest machines out there. They will top out in the mid 50's, which is plenty fast for this ol' boy, but considering the SPHO and Grizz are at around 60 or so, AC looses the edge in the speed category.
If you've got any other questions concerning the 'Cat, or AC's in general, don't hesitate to ask. There are a lot of great guys in the AC forum with a wealth of information to aid in your decision. Though, like I said earlier, if you need two auto's from the same manufacturer, one smaller for your wife, AC might not be the way to go-the 500 Auto is the only auto they make. Though for steering, my 'Cat steers ALOT easier with my larger tires than it did with the stockers. Even a narrower front will greatly aid in the steering effort.
I have a few pics at the link below of the 'Cat in action, if you're interested. And yes, the snow pics are of me actually towing the suburban up the hill on 4 separate occassions with the trailer hooked up, and once (as seen) with just the suburban by itself. Also winching the sub and trailer back up on the road as well. -Just a few examples of how I work my 'Cat.
Best of luck,
Mike
The suspension on the 'Cat is awesome to say the least. It is an independant front double A-arm, with a patented rear swing axle. There is 7.2" wheel travel at all four corners, with something like 9.2" of ground clearance claimed. Since you just menioned sport quads were out because you need racks, AC has the highest rated rack capacity of any atv on the market, at 100 lbs. front, and 200 lbs. rear, for combined 300 lbs. total rating. Towing is rated at 1050 lbs, if that is of any consideration.
Is it suitable for mountain riding? Oh yeah, that's all I ride in. I have roughly 1,200 acres in northern washington, about 30 minutes south of the canadian border, and have been doing a lot of logging with my 'Cat since I bought them. I am always towing logs, brush, whatever around all over the place, all while turning 27" Bi/Tri Claws and carrying 100+ lbs. on the front rack at all times, along with between 150-250 lbs. on the rear rack most of the time. The pure torque of the 'Cat is unstoppable, and in 4 wheel low range, the engine breaking down steep grades is great.
If speed is an issue for you, you might want to shy away from the 'Cats. They are more geared for utility purposes, and are consequently not the fastest machines out there. They will top out in the mid 50's, which is plenty fast for this ol' boy, but considering the SPHO and Grizz are at around 60 or so, AC looses the edge in the speed category.
If you've got any other questions concerning the 'Cat, or AC's in general, don't hesitate to ask. There are a lot of great guys in the AC forum with a wealth of information to aid in your decision. Though, like I said earlier, if you need two auto's from the same manufacturer, one smaller for your wife, AC might not be the way to go-the 500 Auto is the only auto they make. Though for steering, my 'Cat steers ALOT easier with my larger tires than it did with the stockers. Even a narrower front will greatly aid in the steering effort.
I have a few pics at the link below of the 'Cat in action, if you're interested. And yes, the snow pics are of me actually towing the suburban up the hill on 4 separate occassions with the trailer hooked up, and once (as seen) with just the suburban by itself. Also winching the sub and trailer back up on the road as well. -Just a few examples of how I work my 'Cat.
Best of luck,
Mike
#13
01-29-2001, 10:25 PM
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Wow, thanks for the great response - I appreciate all the information and first hand experience I can get. I am going to look at AC's this weekend.
It is rather interesting when I go to one of my local dealers. This dealer sells Honda, Polaris, Yamaha and Suzuki. When I describe the type of riding my wife and I are going to do, they (three different sales people) keep going back to the Honda's - they discourage the Polaris Sportsman due to the maintenance issue (more the 30+ grease nipples than any actual problems with the rig) and they didn't even discuss the Suzuki or Yamaha. I don't know if that is because they feel so strongly in the product or because they have better margins on them.
One thing to note however, I confirmed today the approximate prices of the following machines: Rubicon - $10,000
Sportsman 500HO - $9,000
Sportsman 400 - $8,000
450ES - $8,000
350ES - $7,000
I was a little surprised that the Rubicon was so expensive (most published prices I've seen has the 500HO & the Ruby as nearly the same price). I find the 450ES & 350ES to be reasonably priced. I don't know the price of the Arctic Cat and the Prairie is about $8,000.
It is rather interesting when I go to one of my local dealers. This dealer sells Honda, Polaris, Yamaha and Suzuki. When I describe the type of riding my wife and I are going to do, they (three different sales people) keep going back to the Honda's - they discourage the Polaris Sportsman due to the maintenance issue (more the 30+ grease nipples than any actual problems with the rig) and they didn't even discuss the Suzuki or Yamaha. I don't know if that is because they feel so strongly in the product or because they have better margins on them.
One thing to note however, I confirmed today the approximate prices of the following machines: Rubicon - $10,000
Sportsman 500HO - $9,000
Sportsman 400 - $8,000
450ES - $8,000
350ES - $7,000
I was a little surprised that the Rubicon was so expensive (most published prices I've seen has the 500HO & the Ruby as nearly the same price). I find the 450ES & 350ES to be reasonably priced. I don't know the price of the Arctic Cat and the Prairie is about $8,000.
#15
01-30-2001, 11:22 AM
I Knew the Rubicon was $10000 but a Sportsman 500 H.O $9000!it is $8400 over here in Ontario and a Suzuki and Artic Cat 500 are $8000.Sound like your dealer has some kind of monopoly going on in that town,I would shop around.$8000 for a 450 Foreman sounds not to bad I just can not believe the Ruby is $2000+tax more for only 50cc more.You are right the Rubicon and SP500 sell for the same price in the States but in Canada there is way to much of a differance it there price.Even a non-XT version Bombardier 500 Traxter only sells for $8500.
#16
01-31-2001, 12:19 AM
viking. i'm not here to pump up my choice, but i bought an ac500 automatic.thru dilligent reaserch and testing, i found this to be the most bang for the buck, for my purpose. i agree with cowboy 100% on what he said, and i'm sure he'll agree, that on most trails you don't really need 4wd to get to most places you want. other than deep mud and snow i pretty much keep it in 2wd. it is easier to steer also. the places i did get stuck, i doubt any stock quad would have gotten thru. thats what winches are for, plus i got one as an incentive for $69. the cat has a semi independant rear. rides like a dream. of all the ones we tested, my 103 lb. wife felt the most comfortable and secure on the cat, and it isn't the lightest bike you can get. feel free to pick my brain if you like. later.
#18
02-03-2001, 01:20 PM
Good day CDN V>. I, like you, am a first time buyer. My buddies have Honda's, Yammies and Polaris Sportmans. They all say great things about each of them which leads me to believe they are all solid machines. For me, the rear suspension and a comfy seat are a high priority. Also the dealer himself is as big a reason as any to buy a specific brand. In my town the Honda and the Yamaha's are sold by the same guy, whom I wasn't nearly as impressed with as the Polaris guys. Before he even new my name, the sportsman 500HO was $8200 CDN that's $800 in savings plus he mentioned if I wasn't in a hurry, to wait til Feb or March and the possibility of the free winch is almost a lock. that would be another few bucks. With all the Sportsman ha going for it, it is very high on the list. Since I have no particular brand loyalty yet, I have been looking for an excuse not to buy the Polaris, but to this point, there are none. Plus the wife likes the Remmington special camo edition. It's probably the sweetest looking ATV out there, in our opinion. Good luck with your choice.
#19
02-03-2001, 06:03 PM
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Thanks to everyone that replied to my posting, including those that took time to answer my email questions.
I have decided to go with the 2001 Arctic Cat 500 Auto.
Originally I was sold on the Honda's (and I still really like them), but after the suggestions here I went to my local Arctic Cat dealer and looked at the AC500 Auto.
I was totally impressed with the machine and the dealer. The dealer let me take one out for a spin (something the Honda dealer would not) and I found the machine to be very powerful and stable - I really like the AC suspension system.
I really liked the dealer, that coupled with the price - I can get two AC500 Auto's for $1500.00 less than a 350ES & 450ES combo - helped to make up my mind.
I don't think I could have gone wrong with any of these machines, thanks again to everyone!
Cheers,
I have decided to go with the 2001 Arctic Cat 500 Auto.
Originally I was sold on the Honda's (and I still really like them), but after the suggestions here I went to my local Arctic Cat dealer and looked at the AC500 Auto.
I was totally impressed with the machine and the dealer. The dealer let me take one out for a spin (something the Honda dealer would not) and I found the machine to be very powerful and stable - I really like the AC suspension system.
I really liked the dealer, that coupled with the price - I can get two AC500 Auto's for $1500.00 less than a 350ES & 450ES combo - helped to make up my mind.
I don't think I could have gone wrong with any of these machines, thanks again to everyone!
Cheers,
#20
02-03-2001, 06:18 PM
FIND IT REALLY SUPRISING THAT NO ONE AS SAID THE ATV OF THE YEAR -KODIAK 400 4X4- ,I HAVE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON ALL THE QUADS AND FOUND THAT THE KODIAK IS THE MOST VERSATILE MACHINE ON THE MARKET. WEIGHT , HANDLING , RELIABLITY IT HAS IT ALL. CHECK IT OUT YOU'LL SEE WHAT I MEAN. I HAVE PUT THIS MACHINE THOUGH ALL THE TESTS, AND WOULD BUY IT AGAIN...