Since I know this thread will not "DIE", let me ask a question or two.......


1) If a motor builder alters a motor (piston, cams, port, valves) is he stealing from the original designer of that motor?

2) If a builder designs a new piston that is better then the OEM piston, is he stealing?

3)If a builder takes a competitors piston and makes it BETTER for N2o, is that stealing?

4) If a builder alters the specs on a cam, to make the motor perform better, is he stealing?

5) If a builder alters a jug to have an O-Ring instead of a gasket, is he stealing? (If I am not mistaken, there are some pami jugs out there that have been altered for this)

6) If a builder designs an exhaust, and another supplier/builder alters the design of it just a little, is the supplier/builder stealing?

The motors that we use were designed by ROTAX. If anyone changes the design of these motors, then are they un-ethical because they are improving on the design that was originally put out there.

If anyone knows me, they know I have strong ETHICS. With that being said, I hope that every builder out there continues to improve the motor that we love to run.

I know of many pistons and cams and ports that have been changed from one builder to the other to improve or change the situation for different applications. Were do we draw the line?

DuneDevil

 

i sure hope all of you guy's get a chance to line up with him because you will change your mind's

 

You forget, I have.

 

What was the outcome?

I take it that you won since your signature says winner of the king of the hill comp?

 

only with the nos

hey bom i thought you and mr hp where good friend's what's up

 

$$$[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: DollarBillz
only with the nos[quote]


Isn't king of the hill run with NOS????



That's what I though TOO.

 

I'll try to answer how I feel. Regardless of my answers, I'm not going to try to say anything about your ethics. I met you once at the FSW's 2 and know what you have gone through with knutz and I haven't heard any stories of him turning up dead so. . . you must have quite a bit of restraint.

That being said. . . to your numbers above:

1. Simple answer is no. If someone takes an engine (let's say a Rotax) does some work to it then grinds off the Rotax and sells it as thei own that is a different story.
2. Pretty much same answer as number 1 above.
3. Now your skating the line in my eyes. Wouldn't it be better to model off the stock piston rather than someone's aftermarket one?
4. Altering stock cams, I doubt most would see as an issue. Taking a Ron Wood cam and a Web cam and "splitting the difference" wouldn't be right but, would be tough to proove anything. I wouldn't call this kind of R&D independant thought or design.
5. In my eyes, taking a Pami jug, O-ringing it and re-casting it with my own name on it would be wrong. If I wanted to sell an O-Ring jug I should either buy a Pami, O-ring it and sell it as an O-ring'd Pami or I should design my own big bore jug.
6. Exhaust is kinda like cams. Very tough to show anyone copied anything since they are so similar.


I know this thread is long and people generally don't like to read through a bunch of fighting so, below is a brief summary of the last 9 pages of this thread. NOW, let's try to put this to bed. . .
Original question:
"Well rumor has it that Mr. HP is using some PAMI stuff. "
Original aswer:
"The answer is simply: no."
After further discussion, expanded answer:
I purchased a PAMI jug last January for $1409

This one raised my eyebrows:
"Not that I was hiding anything or that I ever thought such a big deal would be made of it. I paid for it, changed it, and took the name off of it. I simply called this a prototype cylinder and Capewindy was made full aware of that."
And from Capewindy:
"I did not know that it was a modified worked over improved Pami "

hmmmmmm

Everything above is cut and pasted.

Pictures:
Pami Jug
CapeWindy's jug

 

If anyone knows me, they know I have strong ETHICS. With that being said, I hope that every builder out there continues to improve the motor that we love to run.

I know of many pistons and cams and ports that have been changed from one builder to the other to improve or change the situation for different applications. Were do we draw the line?

DuneDevil[/quote]

 

Quoting myself:

"Just remember:

"Opinions are like buttholes, everybody's got one and they all stink.""

My Opinion is (and I know it stinks, just like yours) that I agree with DuneDevil, and I respect DuneMe in his thoughts of disareement. I don't see any more to discuss here - the lines have been drawn, opinions formed and made VERY public. Those who feel comfortable with Eric will do business with him when they want what he is offering, those that do not will not. (We could argue Politics too, no one changes their mind here either.)

Isn't the USA a GREAT country?!?! (Worth fighting for!) If this were Stalinist Russia, you would be assigned a quad, and you would be assigned an engine builder, and you would be assigned... wait, I don't think ATVs would be given out in Stalinist Russia, you might be lucky to get a two wheeled bicycle though...