Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
#11
11-10-2005, 12:06 AM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
"Inside Truth?" What is your source? Earlier today I saw a thread on a different site lamenting how DW is not giving the new LT-R450 the same mag time the YFZ got when it first came out. Forget the fact that the Dec issue has a pic that dominates the cover and the quad probably won't be in showrooms for another 3 months or more. Everything I have seen written about any quad I have ever tried out has mostly matched my impression as well. The one thing I know for sure though, the losing side of any shootout always complains the mag isn't fair, and the winning side usually has people bragging about the results. I always try to keep an open but slightly skeptical mind.
#13
11-10-2005, 01:29 AM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
Scooter,
While I agree about keeping an open mind - if you read enough of the articles you will understand the lack of truth and sheer bias shown by the magazines. However, if no one advertised in the magazines then they wouldn't exist - no one works there for free. The magazine HAS to be profitable and to be profitable you need ads, the more ads you have the better paid the staff is, etc etc... So if your paycheck is based on what you say about your biggest contributor and you happen to be a test rider as well, then that machines sure seems a lot nicer when testing it.
While I agree about keeping an open mind - if you read enough of the articles you will understand the lack of truth and sheer bias shown by the magazines. However, if no one advertised in the magazines then they wouldn't exist - no one works there for free. The magazine HAS to be profitable and to be profitable you need ads, the more ads you have the better paid the staff is, etc etc... So if your paycheck is based on what you say about your biggest contributor and you happen to be a test rider as well, then that machines sure seems a lot nicer when testing it.
#14
11-10-2005, 06:38 AM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
Blackhawk, if you feel the mags are dishonest, then don't read them anymore. Honestly, manufacturer advertising is a pretty small % of DW revenue. The current issues biggest advertiser is Rocky Mountain by far, with that huge, thick and glossy papered spread. Yet I don't see them raving about any Tusk or GeForce products in the whole mag! Maybe I am crazy, but if I was a high up muckety muck at a manufacturer, I wouldn't let quad one go to a mag where the results are "for sale," as someone else may have outbid me, D'oh! From my personal experiences, I just don't see much bias other than perhaps a testers/writers own personal opinions making it into the mag. You do see some preferential treatment to some of the aftermarket shops, and it is almost unheard of for them to lambaste a quad built up by the likes of FST or Sparks or Duncan. Then again, all of those companies put out race winning product. Bottom line, I stick with what I said earlier in that my own personal experiences basically align with what I have seen written, on the models I have ridden.
#15
11-10-2005, 10:07 AM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
Scooter
I beg to differ. Mag's can not survive without manufacturer advertising and that included aftermarket suppliers. I worked for a short time for a Mag that was based on Harley Davidson and it was not long before they started advertising Yamaha's as well. When I questioned there reasoning their response was "bottom line" they needed the advertising monies to continue the publication. I also had the opportunity to work with the product evaluation team who were responsible for evaluation new products as well as new bikes. They were also influenced by the all mighty dollar. With aftermarket suppliers products, they would tend to overlook the small negative details with the product and push the product in a way that made the supplier return to advertise the follow month.
Honest evaluation on aftermarket products who also advertise in the magazine are rare. What manufacturer or aftermarket supplier would continue to pay the exorbitant advertising fees to a magazine that does not promote their product? Thats just not good business sense.
I beg to differ. Mag's can not survive without manufacturer advertising and that included aftermarket suppliers. I worked for a short time for a Mag that was based on Harley Davidson and it was not long before they started advertising Yamaha's as well. When I questioned there reasoning their response was "bottom line" they needed the advertising monies to continue the publication. I also had the opportunity to work with the product evaluation team who were responsible for evaluation new products as well as new bikes. They were also influenced by the all mighty dollar. With aftermarket suppliers products, they would tend to overlook the small negative details with the product and push the product in a way that made the supplier return to advertise the follow month.
Honest evaluation on aftermarket products who also advertise in the magazine are rare. What manufacturer or aftermarket supplier would continue to pay the exorbitant advertising fees to a magazine that does not promote their product? Thats just not good business sense.
#16
11-10-2005, 03:55 PM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
Scooter, you said mags usually give the same impression that you have about a quad. Well how is that when different mags have different favorites?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
And like Scoundrel said, Mag's can't survive without advertisements. Just about like everything else.
And like Scoundrel said, Mag's can't survive without advertisements. Just about like everything else.
#17
11-10-2005, 04:14 PM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
Don't worry. In the next shootout the Bomb will probably win. DW is just like Car and Driver. No consistency.
C&D did a full size truck shootout in one issue and the Nissan Titan won by the widest margin I have ever seen any vehicle win by in car and driver. The next issue they were calling the F150 the Truck of the year. How the f150 improved that much in a month I will never figure out. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
C&D did a full size truck shootout in one issue and the Nissan Titan won by the widest margin I have ever seen any vehicle win by in car and driver. The next issue they were calling the F150 the Truck of the year. How the f150 improved that much in a month I will never figure out. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
#18
11-11-2005, 02:48 AM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
Scooter,
I haven't bought a single Dirt Wheels or 4 Wheel ATV Action since 2001, and I live within a mile of their offices (same ZIP code even.) I've looked at the magazines perhaps twice since 2001 when I canceled, but only in a store or whatever.
Anyone want a secret about those magazines? Their Christmas subscription rate is HALF the regular rate. Yep, if you are going to buy those rags, buy a October or November issue, pull the subscription tab and look at the price cut in half - two years for the price of one. At least it was that way in 2001 when I last saw an issue.
I haven't bought a single Dirt Wheels or 4 Wheel ATV Action since 2001, and I live within a mile of their offices (same ZIP code even.) I've looked at the magazines perhaps twice since 2001 when I canceled, but only in a store or whatever.
Anyone want a secret about those magazines? Their Christmas subscription rate is HALF the regular rate. Yep, if you are going to buy those rags, buy a October or November issue, pull the subscription tab and look at the price cut in half - two years for the price of one. At least it was that way in 2001 when I last saw an issue.
#19
11-11-2005, 01:29 PM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
I am with scooter, I have had allot of the machines they have tested and for the most part I agree with what they are saying about them. This particular case having had both of these machines I agree with allot of what the article is saying, However I kinda picture this as a group of test rider/edditors standing around talking about how these are utility machines and how the readers want to know allot more about the utility functions rather then the performance, when in fact most of the readers are like us wanting the perormance info and opinion and the utility fuctions are realy just a bonus. If I was wanting a work machine I would buy a Honda Rubican or Vinsion 5 speed not either one of these machines. I know magazines make there money on adds, but every time somthing is said that is not liked then its just add money talking or they were paid to say that. I think they sell adds to all the MFGs and I doubt they want to upset any of them. On this particular artical I can see there points on most of it, just the things they valued were not the same as things I valued in the machines by comparison. I am allot more happy with my outy than I ever was with my polaris. I think the artical had a high value set in reguards to utility funcions and a very small value to the performance and fun factors. That is the opposite of what I look for in a Big bore quad like these , I guess thats why I personaly disagree with the artical so much.
#20
11-11-2005, 02:30 PM
Dirtwheels Mag- GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
cc1999, that what you have posted is pretty much my sentiment exactly. You have just a few riders/editors writing a review, and it is a good possibility they are not using the equipment in the same situation and terrain any given end user might. Of course the mag doesn't buy the quads, and therefore there is a limit to how much bashing can go on. It would be nice to have a mag set up more like Consumer Reports in that the mag would buy EVERYTHING reviewed in it while at the same time excepting no ad revenue. Some articles are nothing more than a love fest about the product in question, but overall I just don't see this outright bias so many claim. If there was most people would switch to a more honest mag over time and DW would go under. Bottom line is this, enjoy the entertainment value you get from the mags, but you should never believe anything you read with blind faith. My personal experiences have lead me to find that the mags give out good info for the most part. That info may just not fit with how you would use any given quad.
BTW, the funniest line in this whole thread, and the reason I even bothered to reply to this flame fest waiting to happen, is the very first one, asking if Polaris owned Dirtwheels! Polaris, perhaps the most consistently maligned manufacturer in that mags' history!
BTW, the funniest line in this whole thread, and the reason I even bothered to reply to this flame fest waiting to happen, is the very first one, asking if Polaris owned Dirtwheels! Polaris, perhaps the most consistently maligned manufacturer in that mags' history!