Cost Cost Cost?? Pami and MHP have the high dollar Jugs, but what wrong with the re sleeved Jug, I can get the nikasil coating let me run some numbers her for ya, LA sleeve quoted 109.00 for teh sleev, 115 for install. and 180.00 for the plating thats only just over 400 bucks? plus a pistion seen fromm 150 to 250 bucks plus gaskets..........well Im getting quotes on the head work as I type. Im not going the cheap I just think a toy shouldnt cost an arm and a leg to modify, back to teh question at hand , I read threads on the TVI Big Bores, seems to be allot of happy campers with the sleeved product...just rattling the cage for input.

 

I live in Oregon about 50 miles from TVI. I bought my 730 from HPR because they have had ( 0 ) failures. It is hard to guarenty and stand behind products in the high performance world. In the car industry they flat don't do it. You buy at your own risk and if it fails it is your fault! No exceptions it seems. TVI cannot claim that same ( 0 ) failure record. HPR would never say this but I have read on one of these threads about guys who have taken their 720 sleeve kit that dropped and blew a head gasket into Eric and he has reinstalled it. Why would they take it to Eric instead of taking it back to TVI to be repaired? Because they were going to have to pay for the work to be redone at both places so it wasn't a matter of money anymore, it was a matter of confidence. There are precious few warranties that actually get paid out in this business so finding products that have a history of holding up is even more important than choosing the cheapest breadmaker because hell, it has a warranty!

My $0.02

Ron [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

its a good question and warrants discussion, sleeves have been put into alum cylinders at all the factories forever, it is a proven method of building a motor. TVI has a lot of happy campers, and some not so happy. there is room for both types - sleeve jobs and new castings with no sleeves - it would be neat to see more work done in the arena of sleeving these jugs. sleeves slipping, or being bored off center, or having head gasket issues, certianly have had their share of occurences in the DS world, and that is unfortunate but also unecesary. plenty of motors, including the raptors with their equal bore size, are running sleeves just fine and dandy. personally I feel the total aluminum and sleeveless casting with nicasil coating is superior, but its also 4 times the cost. is it really worth it? (okay, that was just a joke [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Just my opinion on this particular subject- I ran a sleeved jug for a few years with GREAT results.. BUT It ALL depends on if the sleeve is sunk in the jug the proper way to avoid sinking or shifting. These sleeves dont run any hotter than any other jug from the temps I have seen. Like Hightower said, some were bored out of round and not sunk right and it caused extra friction and many other problems. So it comes down to the mechanic you choose to install it. Or, you can get a trusworthy machine shop to check the bore to see if it is out of round. If all is up to spec it can be a very affordable and reliable...

 

t tfhr oIm with mario and the big guy the tvi resleeved is as good as you can get if done properly it is as good as any other builders out there. And the words zero issue's "come on" lets not lie to each other even god has a few defects running around[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]




I know im going to heII for that one
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

 

If that is the case you should have no trouble pulling up threads on this forum of people posting trouble with their HPR730. Until there is a track record of problems or at minimum someone complaining of having a problem (which is an allegation until substantiated), there is no problem. On the other side of the coin, there are some very happy TVI customers and that is great but there is an undeniable track record of sleeves not being installed correctly for some of the other customers, sleeves dropping during the heat cycle leaving not enough surface area for the head gasket to hold.

It doesn't make sense to brush aside a track record of problems by saying "everyone has problems", then brush aside someone else's perfect record by saying "everyone has problems". The only way to validate that approach is to bring some evidence to the table that supports your position. I will change my position in a heartbeat if proved wrong because I don't care about winning arguments, I care about know what is right and accurate.

If the circumstances were reversed I would caution against the HPR730 because I care about track record and real information. I don't want mechanical failures and I certainly do not want to pay for them twice.

I don't want you to either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

BTW assuming a person can do their own install a HPR730 kit will cost you about $1750 including shipping, oil and coolant. A piece of interesting information would be for someone who has actually had a cylinder sleeved but did their own teardown and install chiming in on what it actually cost them all together. It would be an apples to apples comparison of cost and useful information for anyone trying to decide between the two.

Whatever the difference is, most of it will be your return on the risk of a possible failure of the 720 based on a track record that you only get to keep if she holds together. The rest of the difference will compensate you for getting less overall torque that the larger displacement 730 kit would have given you.

One more thing, look at the "Whats in your garage" thread. You will find some 720 sleeve kits people are tripping over while the new HPR730 kit is actually on their DS. I haven't seen any post of someone sporting a 720 on their motor with an HPR730 kit collecting dust on the shelf. I would venture to say the only scenario where that would prove true would be due to the fact they havent' had time to install their new 730 kit yet.

Ron

 

If someone is mechanically inclined, A good sleeved jug could be as good as any. I guess Im just happy with my stock bore #s compared to a 730 hpr jug at the moment. I can lighten ALOT of stuff up for $2000... Just look at chooses bike, Hes putting a mopping down on alot of BIG bores with just a light chassis and a stock motor. Hense the power weight ratio.

 

I can change a head gasket in about an hour and a half, with a labor rate of 80 an hour I can change mine about 6 times before the moneys the same as the hpr if I had to pay to get it done if it gets changed once a year thats still six years worth. I got no problem with the TVI. Has anyone whos had them both dynod both on the same dyno with the only difference being the kit? I bet there isn't much over 1hp diff. JMO.

 

Mario I have one of the lightest bikes out there and the problem there is its not a dune rider any longer and good for racing only!!
H the problem I see with the easy to change head gasket is if you get to the dunes after a 8 hour drive and pull your bike off the trailer and it starts spraying water on your leg it can ruin a long holiday weekend[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] Been there and done that!!!!!
Reliable power is a good thing its just how much you want to spend to get there

 

With that said, I had one of the best tvi720s out there with out any major problems. Just wanted to upgrade