I think I will give Kelly a call and get an update on progress. I would like to be able to run either fuel whenever I want. The o2 sensor problem is about the only thing holdiing me up on it. I want to live in a EFI world also[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

I must say that Kelly from KMS has been great to work with. On the phone he seems to love to talk, I feel bad wasting his time on the phone when he talks for 1/2 hour when I only had a 2 min question! I have been running the EFI since the end of 2004. Started out with more primitive ECU that used a narrow band O2 sensor and it required user input. When through a few upgrades to get where I am now with a wide band O2 sensor and I have absolutely zero user input on my behalf. I am sure my engines demands are some what mellow compared to the turbo alky engines.

I have no experience with running alky, I do know that the fuel requirements increase so much that a whole another fuel circuit is required, including another injector. As a dune rider, alky doesn't make sense for me as fuel mileage is somewhat of a concern.

Leaded race fuel and wide band O2 sensors do not mix. At DS days I lost an O2 sensor. The engine would not run at all and had to be towed back to camp. Kelly was there and checked out the EFI, put in a new O2 sensor free of charge and is been running great since. It could of been a faulty O2 sensor or the lead contaminated the O2 sensor, will never really know the true cause of the O2 failure. I only have about 10 gallons of fuel through the new O2 sensor, but so far no problems. Ideally if I were to do it again, I would run a lower CR so I could run pump gas. I did find that my race fuel supplier (F&L fuel) has a 105 octane unleaded that is rated for 14:1 engines, mine is only 13:1. I have to do some more research on it before I dump it in my tank.

If I understand it correctly, all nitrous does is add more O2 to the mixture. With the added O2 it requires more fuel to be added to get the idea A/F ratio. So basically nitrous allows you to run more fuel in the same space and maintain the ideal A/F ratio. (Please correct me if my explanation is incorrect) With the EFI, Kelly is adding nitrous only (dry shot), the EFI senses a lean condition and compensates with more fuel. Boondocker works with float bowl pressure on quads, although I did see that they have EFI system for snowmobile applications. I am sure ODP can give us more info on that.

 

nice post. And as far as the leaded fuel and o2 snsor are concerned, you are right on the money. In fact I was going to say just that after thinking about EFI today.

Good Post.

 

Do you NEED the airbox, or...?[/quote]


Yes i need the airbox so im wondering if both the tm45 and the lectron 46 would run alright with the airbox and the lid removed.....i need the airbox due to all the mud, water etc in my riding area. I no the tm45 uses the stock carb boots but does the lectron fit into the stock boots or does it take some sanding down of the rubber boots to make them a bit bigger?

 

I ran the Lectron 46HV with the stock air tube and air box, lid and snorkles off with no problems.

 

First of all, all 02 sensors are not the same. I've been doing a lot of research on the ones that are being used in the snowmobile industry. Basically, the ones that those guys are using are only used to help riders and builders to TUNE the carbs, nitrous or EFI. They dont control anything. Those are not the same as what are used to control the EFI on other motors. There are two schools of thought here, and Im not going to say which one is right or wrong, only that there are indeed two schools here. For the 700R, and nearly all of the Snowmobile motors out there, the EFI is only controlled by a altitude sensor, and sometimes, not even that! Consequently, you have a static setting on your EFI which does not accomidate higher flow mods. If you add higher flowing mods, or Nitrous, or Turbo, then you have a lean situation. The sled heads have been working on this problem for years. There are lots of ways to adjust the EFI to add more flow. In fact, stock injectors (like on the Sled and the 700R) can be manipulated to greatly increase flow to match increase in air flow. So, while there are EFI interface boxes & ways to reburn your ECU chips, the problem remains ..... how much to increase the flow? The best gauge that I have found is the one by Innovate Motorsports, and widley accepted in the Sled industry. You can check out thier site at http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/. Basically, all the technology that has been made for the huge sled industry, is now being applied to the quad industry. The Innovate Motorsports wideband 02 sensor works great for carbed quads too. Again, its simply giving the rider/builder the ability to tune the motor. And its been rated to work with 2 stroke or 4 stroke engines running with unleaded or leaded fuel.

So, in review, if your specific turbo needs to be controlled by a specific 02 sensor, you may be required to run with a sensor that is not lead tollerant. However, lets not confuse the issue that all 02 sensors cant be used to tune quads with leaded fuels, because they actually can tune quads with leaded fuels. Talk to your builder about what your options are, or if you build your own, do some research and find out what works best with your application.

 

I also wanted to add that Engine tuning is huge. Now I know that you old timers know how important it is. When specs get tight, like with Nitrous, Turbo and Superchargers, people have to know what thier air/fuel ratio really is. For those whose specs are not that tight, but want the most HP possible, the correct air/fuel ratio is right about 14.7:1. That means 14.7 parts of oxygen to 1 part of fuel; slightly higher numbers (leaner) or lower numbers (richer). By tuning, you will get the absolute correct ratio that makes the most horsepower at what ever RPM range you test at. As I have mentioned before, at this ratio, theoretically, all available oxygen in the air combines with all available fuel. This ratio is called the stoichiometric ratio and the value is 14.7 (it takes 14.7 parts of air to combine with 1 part of gasoline.).

Now a guy could hunt and peck all day long and find what ratio is best by the feel of the quad. He can also go to a dyno and test assuming he tests at a facility that check the air/fuel ratio. But, if you travel to higher elevations, the whole thing will be off again. There is nothing like having real time information available to you to make those decisions, especially for those quads that have no EFI, or EFI that is not automatically controlled, or quads that have carbs.

 

There is that LM-1 air fuel ratio controller again. I really want one, but pricey...... Great product from what I hear though...

 

Think of it as a tuning session every time you ride. Also, think about the engine damage you might have when you run too lean. Still think its pricey? - dude, that sucker is cheap!

 

Alright, Marky you are killing me [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Absolutly not with that thought process, but my poor piggy bank is anerexic these days...Do you know of a way to use it on 3 seperate quads, now that would be priceless [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]