Scooby is right "if" it is done right. "If" they make it round, "if" they machine the cylinder properly to receive the sleeve, "if" they install the sleeve correctly. "if", "if", "if".



It sounds like you have decided to sleeve and you are getting a number of people that want to sweep history under the rug, that have no problem with you taking this risk because it isn't their money. Good luck managing your "if's". [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

ya know sometimes too much info can make your brain hurt, now Im being told if it aint a nikasil coated sleeve Im wasting my money, well well Mr HP are coated! I was told that any sleeve with out coating is old tech and teh wear would be 3 times fast ??? is that real?? lots of bikes and quads use sleeved larger bores I thought??

 

Nikisal is great I guess, but not needed for race motors, very over-rated in the industry, if you have a stock machine and your not gonna ever do any mods and just ride it for 5yrs and go on, it's great in it's place.
Who's not gonna open up a race motor and play with multiple pistons/bores/cams, etc.
Nikisal is for the long run in un-molested applications. I've run steel LA sleeves for 10 yrs with no problems, never even wore out a set of rings, but of course its tore down every season for mods here and there.
BUT--- sleeve installation is the kikker, got to find a shop that knows what they are doing, I've had sleeves shift up or down, decked crooked , etc. It takes a good machine shop to do it right, most are just slapping them in at 4:30 on a Friday, well you know what you get then, sloppy work. Get plenty of refrences of past work before you take the plunge on single cyl. sleeve installations, cause if it's not done right you'll have nothing but problems-good luck.

LA Sleeves are real good, and will also last as long as oem with proper maintenance.

 

XR who does your sleeve install?

 

what are u, the national repesenitive for HPR???? have u EVER owned or run a sleaved bigbore?instead of FORCE FEEDING your info down his throat , maybe we should just answer his question, its obvious by the thread post that he looking at sleaves NOT a complete cyilender.......if he was looking at getting a cylinder set im sure he would us HPR...but he is looking at a more cost effective way to go about it...

to answer your question, i havent heard alot about advantage, La seems to be the route the big boys take, must be somthing good there...

 

Im glad you said it The Big Show! Theres liking a product and being on the payroll!
Seem there are a bunch of folks that are quite happy with the TV1 kit, and I am sure the Mr HP is a great kit, but as I said before there are some great motor builders out there also! Look its like this some of you like to blow a wad of cash on your toys, and if your happy thats great, but taking the time to research what I want for how much I want to spend makes it more economical to do other things, like the head, shocks, purchase another bike for the kids.....Toy boxes ......paying ex wifes child support..............sons orthodonist....................ya get my point.

 

Look at this post from DSNUT. Now I know where the NUT in his forum name came from, LOL.

DSNUT

 

I don't think it's possible for the sleeve to shift because it has a lip to it that seals against the head.

See pic of sleeve here

 

the engine is rock solid....until we start messing with it!

I would love to be running on a sleeved jug with Nikasil....and you are right- the whole package was messed up...but, the foundation is also wrong. To accept a 105 sleeve, the stock cylinder must be bored until there is only .080 wall left in places. And, it has no internal bracing- it wasn't necessary at 100mm. So, when you bore the cylinder to accept the sleeve, you can't get a good bore with aluminum that thin. Next, you drop in a sleeve that has little support and try to bore it- every one I've seen is severely egg shaped. And... it doesn't have a lip, because there is no room left for one.

Oh, I wanted this to work badly a few years ago, but every sleeved cylinder I pulled off had some kind problem. We contacted each of the sleeve companies mentioned and the engineers ALL said "no way"- there is no way around the problems. Lo and behold, those same companies are now going with the demand and installing those sleeves that they didn't even want to talk about a few years ago.

There are success stories out there, but the scale inside my memory says 3 horror stories for each success story. No doubt, a low hp, low revving engine would stand a better chance..

Some fact, some opinion, but if money were a problem, or I just couldn't justify the money on a proven big bore, I would personally go with a good stock bore piston and cams. Other than expense, if given a choice, I can't think of any reason why I'd choose cast iron over Nikasil for ANY reason.

ErbeDS650: It doesn't sound like you need an expensive HPR or Pami big bore. I think you are asking the right questions though.

222

 

I think a sleeved cylinder will work fine in the DS up to 55-60hp if the job is done very professional. I like the looks of Halfliter's job, now that is some high quality machine work.

I have used lots of cast iron sleeves when we used to big bore the old 350X motors years ago. But there was .250 wall thickness to support the sleeve so it was no big deal. The stock DS cylinder has aproximately .080 wall thickness left when installing a sleeve big enough to put in the 105mm piston.

ERBEDS650, LA sleeve is who we always used back in the day and never had a problem. That would be my recommendation. When you do the job it's nearly impossible to sink the sleeve fully the first time because of tiny burrs that build up between the aluminum and cast iron The aluminum needs to be heated and this worsens the burr problem a little but thats life when sleeving. The only thing you can do is put it together and heat cycle the motor using it normally for about 10hrs then pull it down and take a cleanup cut on the top of the cylinder. The combustion pressure will force the sleeve to fully seat.

If you decide to go much over 55hp you are dealing with a thin walled cylinder that WILL flex and loose cylinder seal which creates blow by, ring wear etc. The cylinder is so thin that it will always be egg shaped especially at TDC no matter how careful the job is done.There simply isnt enough material left in the original jug to hold a perfectly round shape.