drag motor vs. hill shooter
#31
03-28-2006 | 11:32 AM
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#32
03-28-2006 | 11:46 AM
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"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men". Willy Wonka: 1971
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"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men". Willy Wonka: 1971
Cigars! Earth ne'eer did breed such a jovial weed.
A Tiger Doesn't Lose Sleep Over Opinions of Sheep
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From: Landrum, South Carolina, elevation 986'
#33
03-28-2006 | 11:49 AM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
I asked the question on another site. This topic seems to be relavent, so hear it is.
At what point will we have to start grouping the 4 stoke single cylinders with the 2 stroke single cylinders? I believe the current record for a 2 stroke single is a 3.9 second pass in 300ft. The 4 strokes will be trying to assault the 4 second barrier in just 2 weeks.
I give the edge to the 2 strokes in a heads up drag race, just because of weight. But all being equal I say 4 strokes gets the nod because of the torque factor. If the 4 strokes find a way to go bigger cc then we might make it very interesting when it comes to records for a single cylinder.
At what point will we have to start grouping the 4 stoke single cylinders with the 2 stroke single cylinders? I believe the current record for a 2 stroke single is a 3.9 second pass in 300ft. The 4 strokes will be trying to assault the 4 second barrier in just 2 weeks.
I give the edge to the 2 strokes in a heads up drag race, just because of weight. But all being equal I say 4 strokes gets the nod because of the torque factor. If the 4 strokes find a way to go bigger cc then we might make it very interesting when it comes to records for a single cylinder.
#34
03-28-2006 | 01:42 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
Originally posted by: DSNUT
Rocky, I know you are making fun but you.......in a strange way......captured part of my point........I think.
Build your motor around the torque curve and horsepower will take care of itself.
A good question would be how do you make torque (there is a thread about that). A better question would be how do you keep your torque from signing off early?
Originally posted by: thebigshow
the more torque made at higher rpms is the difference between a fast quad and OMG!!! but more torque at higher RPM's equals more H.P....................Right?????
the more torque made at higher rpms is the difference between a fast quad and OMG!!! but more torque at higher RPM's equals more H.P....................Right?????
Build your motor around the torque curve and horsepower will take care of itself.
A good question would be how do you make torque (there is a thread about that). A better question would be how do you keep your torque from signing off early?
#35
03-28-2006 | 01:49 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
you guys are doing extremely good- keep it coming.
Is there noone that has beaten a bike on flat drags and then gone to the hill and had it go the other way?
1BigDS- if we can get this all new setup, all new engine, all new everything to perform at 80% of it's potential, the single 2 stroke record will fall in a couple of weeks. If not, it's just a matter of time.
222
Is there noone that has beaten a bike on flat drags and then gone to the hill and had it go the other way?
1BigDS- if we can get this all new setup, all new engine, all new everything to perform at 80% of it's potential, the single 2 stroke record will fall in a couple of weeks. If not, it's just a matter of time.
222
#36
03-28-2006 | 02:08 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
222,
Remember all they are doing is chambers, porting, and maybe super jets: they are done.
You are doing much more than that ($$,$$$.$$).
2 strokes come ready to race with roller bearing mains stock. Change piston, clean head, reline jugsand that's a complete rebuild. If you can beat them, you and TheBom would be the only ones who could. Its not feasible to most, since no one knows exactly what you 2 racers do to win now. If anyone had a clue, you 2 wouldn't win all the races.
But someone could get a nice jap bike with chambers and porting and beat either of you possibly, even though they may not win the 2 stroke title. Just because one or two teams may eventually may do it, doesn't mean that class of mc is a better racing bike.
Torque is a well rounded do anything feature MOST people like better. But its a tall order to beat fast 2 strokes in racing no matter what you've got.
Remember all they are doing is chambers, porting, and maybe super jets: they are done.
You are doing much more than that ($$,$$$.$$).
2 strokes come ready to race with roller bearing mains stock. Change piston, clean head, reline jugsand that's a complete rebuild. If you can beat them, you and TheBom would be the only ones who could. Its not feasible to most, since no one knows exactly what you 2 racers do to win now. If anyone had a clue, you 2 wouldn't win all the races.
But someone could get a nice jap bike with chambers and porting and beat either of you possibly, even though they may not win the 2 stroke title. Just because one or two teams may eventually may do it, doesn't mean that class of mc is a better racing bike.
Torque is a well rounded do anything feature MOST people like better. But its a tall order to beat fast 2 strokes in racing no matter what you've got.
#37
03-28-2006 | 02:15 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
Originally posted by: 222
you guys are doing extremely good- keep it coming.
Is there noone that has beaten a bike on flat drags and then gone to the hill and had it go the other way?
1BigDS- if we can get this all new setup, all new engine, all new everything to perform at 80% of it's potential, the single 2 stroke record will fall in a couple of weeks. If not, it's just a matter of time.
222
you guys are doing extremely good- keep it coming.
Is there noone that has beaten a bike on flat drags and then gone to the hill and had it go the other way?
1BigDS- if we can get this all new setup, all new engine, all new everything to perform at 80% of it's potential, the single 2 stroke record will fall in a couple of weeks. If not, it's just a matter of time.
222
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#38
03-28-2006 | 03:15 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
Originally posted by: 222
you guys are doing extremely good- keep it coming.
Is there noone that has beaten a bike on flat drags and then gone to the hill and had it go the other way?
222
you guys are doing extremely good- keep it coming.
Is there noone that has beaten a bike on flat drags and then gone to the hill and had it go the other way?
222
#39
03-28-2006 | 03:33 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
Originally posted by: thebigshow
ron, i was not making fun...lol......(i know its a shocker) i was agreeing with u a 100%..... Torque is where it begins and ends....
Originally posted by: DSNUT
Rocky, I know you are making fun but you.......in a strange way......captured part of my point........I think.
Build your motor around the torque curve and horsepower will take care of itself.
A good question would be how do you make torque (there is a thread about that). A better question would be how do you keep your torque from signing off early?
Originally posted by: thebigshow
the more torque made at higher rpms is the difference between a fast quad and OMG!!! but more torque at higher RPM's equals more H.P....................Right?????
the more torque made at higher rpms is the difference between a fast quad and OMG!!! but more torque at higher RPM's equals more H.P....................Right?????
Build your motor around the torque curve and horsepower will take care of itself.
A good question would be how do you make torque (there is a thread about that). A better question would be how do you keep your torque from signing off early?
#40
03-28-2006 | 04:08 PM
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drag motor vs. hill shooter
Yjacket, what makes you think that equal bikes in every catagory would yield a 2stroke winner. Do you REALLY think that two teams will be the only ones doing this? I hate to tell you, but that is how all the racing is. A team or two start doing something that is new and yeilds positive results, and later on more and more teams adopt that technique. That's what make the pack catch up to the leaders. That's why track times in all forms of racing continute to be quicker and quicker. How many motor builders do you think there are in the top ranks of racing - say for example Nextel Cup?
And on that note, whey don't we see any two stroke motors in car racing, powerboat racing... any racing where signifcant weight is involved? Two strokes have been around a long time, and yes have come a long way over the last 30years. Do you think they started race ready? Do you think that banshees came with welded cranks? Billet gears? cool heads? stroked cranks? billet cylinders? tricked out exhaust?
How about this.... the DS has been around for how long? 5 years or so... Shee has been around for about what 25 or so. Take a stock shee and a stock DS and see who gets torched. Take a stock DS strip it to the weight of a shee (which is almost impossible - I know)and see who gets MEGA TORCHED. I've raced just about every bike out at the dunes and even with the 175lbs I give up on rider and the 150lbs I give up on machine, I still get the best of most. Certainly I get beat. But more times than not, that exact combo results in a win or a least a very competitive race. Believe it or not, my motor is fairly easy to get. Yes, "Jap" bikes can be nasty but then again, it's a weight thing. I've raced nasty YFZ with SPARKS everything and get beat pretty good. Put my 175lb buddy on it (without the juice) and the YFZ gets a whoopin!
WEIGHT, WEIGHT, WEIGHT..... Bottom line.
Tell you what, tell Tony Stewart to start using one of those race ready 2 stroke motors and see what he does. Better yet, tell Grand Prix drivers to start using 2 strokes motors instead of their HONDA motors. Grand Prix uses all 4 stroke motors of course..... Bet the motors don't last half a lap....
Just trying to point out the obvious.
Did I mention WEIGHT, WEIGHT, WEIGHT????
And on that note, whey don't we see any two stroke motors in car racing, powerboat racing... any racing where signifcant weight is involved? Two strokes have been around a long time, and yes have come a long way over the last 30years. Do you think they started race ready? Do you think that banshees came with welded cranks? Billet gears? cool heads? stroked cranks? billet cylinders? tricked out exhaust?
How about this.... the DS has been around for how long? 5 years or so... Shee has been around for about what 25 or so. Take a stock shee and a stock DS and see who gets torched. Take a stock DS strip it to the weight of a shee (which is almost impossible - I know)and see who gets MEGA TORCHED. I've raced just about every bike out at the dunes and even with the 175lbs I give up on rider and the 150lbs I give up on machine, I still get the best of most. Certainly I get beat. But more times than not, that exact combo results in a win or a least a very competitive race. Believe it or not, my motor is fairly easy to get. Yes, "Jap" bikes can be nasty but then again, it's a weight thing. I've raced nasty YFZ with SPARKS everything and get beat pretty good. Put my 175lb buddy on it (without the juice) and the YFZ gets a whoopin!
WEIGHT, WEIGHT, WEIGHT..... Bottom line.
Tell you what, tell Tony Stewart to start using one of those race ready 2 stroke motors and see what he does. Better yet, tell Grand Prix drivers to start using 2 strokes motors instead of their HONDA motors. Grand Prix uses all 4 stroke motors of course..... Bet the motors don't last half a lap....
Just trying to point out the obvious.
Did I mention WEIGHT, WEIGHT, WEIGHT????