Bombardier makes some of the best quality prodocts in anymarket. They are the top of the snowmachine market as well as the outboard motors market, they are shakin chit up in their newer markets like Seadoo and ATVs. they set Bars for the japs to jump at.. they are more with atv's currently BRP's Business plan is to fill the niche market. Big Guys and Big Power. they will later try and move in on the direct competition [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] they will likely never get the respect of the mag's as like its always said they dont spend the money with them.. also its the anti canadian semitism [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

a future 800 owner

 

DS650 is nice. But for $3K you can get a big bore and stroker kit for a YZF450 which is already set up to race. Equvalent in DS650 including new bike gets up towards $25K installed. Most people can't get to stroker because run out of money. Very few DS strokers (full race bike), but most 450's have them combined with big bore kit on a race bike to begin with an additional $2K on top of bike price and more power/weight.

DS650 is same solid rotax engine for 15 years (since 92), but look at picture 12 on my page. 800cc 85 hp twin rotax engine same size. Won't need a stroker, big bore kit, turbo charger, ... on that Rotax twin. It will be more responsive than a turbo DS650, except stock so will last forever. Slightly lighter weight (~10 pounds).

But until DS comes out with it, will need a machinest builder to put it in DS frame. TheBom should have the expertise to do it with his continuous winning quad race combinations. Same size engine as 650, but supports, systems, and fixtures will need adapting. And it has EFI, but the only motorcycle I know of specifically made for EFI with downdraft intake manifolds and intake ports (picture 9): maybe its the first bike made for EFI (with Sachs EFI 2000 design for 650 rotax).

Any more than 85 hp is going to be painfully fast off road. And it should weigh slightly less than DS650 now. BMW has 4 models planned starting out this month. Bombardier makes the Rotax engines, so... wonder what the hold up is in making the king DS model?

 

Its all about popularity. Sorry to say that the DS is not what the masses are riding at this time. The guys spending the money on quads and aftermarket parts are buying the Japanese products and as long as the majority of the money and popularity is there, the industery will cater to that segment. The DS, being primarily favored by the "over 25" crowd, is not sugnificant in terms of population or aftermarket parts sales compared to the segment that the advertising dollars are earmarked for. Open the cover of Dirt Wheels and (I am sorry to suggest this) read the letters....5-6 pages of em! All from the coveted 16-24 year old segment of the ATVing industry. This is where the advertisers can reach the largest population so this is where the magazines gear their articles and features toward.
It has little to do with the magazine's 'getting on their knees' for Japanese advertising dollars. Not directly anyway. They know that if they they sell subscriptions to the majority of the popular demographic, the advertiser dollars will happily follow and without having to skew the outcome of comparison articles as many would believe is the case. The magazines have to maintain a delicate balance between their subscribers and the advertisers, promoting the DS will alienate the very demographic they wish to maintain and therefore is not condusive to the balance.

 

People are just scared of it because the DS650, is so different. All they see is a large beached whale. This bike is the most comforable machine I have ever been on. I enjoy when I go trail riding with the guys, because my knee's don't bounce on the plastic, I have a nice big seat absorb it. I can ride all day. To me the DS650 is shaped like a F-16, and everyone likes to look at airplanes. They just wonder how something so big can do things like that. That is why they stare.

2 cents
Loyal DS650 Owner

 

I have a different take on this, the DS is not popular with the masses because the " average " guy is what 5'9' and 180 lbs??? For the average guy the DS is a handfull in a lot of riding situations. I've seen the polls on here and observed a lot of guy's on DS's and theres a whole bunch of us that make the "1/8th ton or more " club. We have the mass to be able to manipulate and control our DS the same way average guy can handle a 450. I think were really fortunate to have an ATV thats so well suited to the big framed guys. If they took away my DS I don't think I'd ride anymore. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

 

The DS heft scares a lot away. It's not a beginers quad. Amazing how the Kawi 700 v-twin is all over the place and the DS is rarely seen. I think it also has to do with Bombardier name in that area. It's just not a well recgonized brand in the world of cycles. Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Kawi all have street bikes/motorcycles. Bombardier.... most know them as "Sea Doos". I would think the Predator is the second to last in the under rated dept for similar reasons as to the DS.

 

I think the biggest issue is that BRP is very, very new to the ATV market as well they have never produced a motorcycle/dirtbike(that I know of) such as Honda, Yama, Kawi for the masses to recognize.

Apple/Macintosh PC's are superior in almost every way to windows based PC's, so why is Dell, HP or Gateway so much more popular?

BRP carries a premium price for a premium product, this immediately turns off the average consumer. There was a time when you heard people with no knowledge of ATV's say on these forums they "hear Bombardier is junk and break down all the time". Clearly an ignorant statement to those of us who know.

IF BRP had been making ATV's for the past 20 yrs, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion and they would probably be well ahead of Polaris.

Ask anyone if they have heard of Honda.......Yamaha, Kawasaki, almost anyone you know will say they have, mention Bombardier and they look at you like "HUH", then mention Sea Doo or Ski Doo and they go OH YEAH. This is why BRP is offering extended warranties, to ease the uncertaintey of the brand in the mind of the consumer, similar to what Hyundai did with their cars...Of course what most of us have realized is that the best warranty is the one you rarely have to use.

Neither my Outlander or DS have been required to be put in the shop although because my DS was under warranty I chose to bring it in for a new battery and oil sensor, both things I could have fixed myself I got both replaced for free and the oil sensor was a minor design flaw with a very easy fix/prevention.

My Outlander has only seen the shop for its first service (which I think was a total waste of money). My only "problem" is the sticky shifter and it can be hard to get started at times when it's cold, probably a minor adjustment but was like this before I serviced it and after I serviced it and a rough idle which was easily fixed and prevented through an additional filter inside the air box.

Just a note: The above "glitches" have all been addressed by BRP in the 05 and 06 models but I hear the Outy shifter is still a bit sticky.

The DS was built for desert racing and IMO no other quad is better built to handle extreme conditions. For the average/beginner few times a year forest trail rider, IMO the Raptor is a better option. <I'm sure I'll take some heat for this but I have my reasons>

As I've posted on here before, my buddy just bought the "latest and greatest" YFZ 450, don't get me wrong, it's an awsome quad but he was quite shocked when drag racing how I shot past him once I tached out in 3rd and punched 4th gear. Now he wants to pipe/jet it and I'm like "dude, were hitting wheelies easily in second gear how much more do you need"??

 

The only reason I never wanted a DS was the fact of weight. Besides that and watching the modded DS vids, it really makes me want one.

 

RAIDERMIKE67,
Bombardier did make dirt bikes in the 80's under the CAN-AM name. Search under bombardier and CAN-AM in yahoo or google and you can read all about it. I realize that the DS650 is made for wide open spaces, but I still wouldn't mind having reverse and I could occasionally use IRS for those rocky trails. I love my DS and am getting ready for dune season at St. Anthony's. Hopefully BRP will come out with the 450 2-stroke that was rumored about 8 months back.

 

I believe that every reason listed is a good reason for the lack of popularity. If Bomb came out with a red-hot light weight 450 or even a 2-stroke early on, I think things would have been different. Cannondale without the issues would have been successful and received the respect of the industry by now. I think that Bomb is happy with their position in the sport quad department and has very little desire to improve the DS. Not that it need much improving but it would be nice if it shedded a few LBS.