So after a while people begin to see the truth in ingenuity the Japanese were producing and embraced it as quality. Am I wrong for saying a Lexus is far better quality than a GM? >>>

The Japenese embraced total quality management that was introduced to them by an American named Ed Demming. The premise of his management style was that in the end quality is what matters the most, zero defects at the end of the production line. The initial Japanese imported items following WW2 as Japan converted from a military to an industrialized nation were not of great quality. Ed Demming was a management guru who taught Japenese business leaders his philosophy on quality.

The Japenese took this philosophy and eventually matched then surpassesd American products in both cost and quality. By 1983 the only American motorcycle manufacturer actually produced Harleys that leaked oil on the dealer floors still brand new.

I think today the American auto mfgrs. are producing better quality products then ever before unfortunately it took them too long to catch up to the Japanese, plain and simple. Is a Lexus better quality then a top of the line GM?

What does any of this have to do with BRP or the DS? Well, about 6 years ago BRP introduced Six Sigma Quality Management....what is this? It is the current evolution of the quality management the Mr. Demming introduced to the Japanese back in the 50's that has been embraced by a growing number of companies. The only American auto. mfgr to embrace any of this is Saturn, a division of GM, unfortunately their market share is so small it's been hard for many to recognize some of the innovations they have contributed to the marketplace.

"quality is remembered long after price is forgotten"

 

something between a Raptor and the DS would be a waste of engineering.
>>>>>>>>>

Maybe in your opinion but that would be my preference. No reverse is a major inconvenience for some of the riding I do, we have explored a lot of new riding areas and sometimes you never know going down a trail what to expect, it can be a real B* to turn around sometimes. I'm not knocking the DS, it is incredibly comfortable and seems to have endless power but it is a bit big/heavy/bulky for a lot of riders. EFI is a no brainer and putting the DS on a diet wouldn't be such a bad idea either.

My thoughts are a sport quad with the new 650 v-twin, overall a few inches shorter/taller/wider, EFI, reverse and about a 50 lb or more weight loss. I'm no engineer and maybe this isn't even possible, but this would just right for me.

 

Raidermike gave the biggest reason i don't have a DS sitting in my garage.. No reverse. I don't mind manhandling a 350lb sportbike to turn around once in a while, but the DS is just to heavy. Combined with that the physical size makes it harder to negotiate some of these tight NE trails. I hvae a lot of respect for the few DS riders I have seen wrestling that beast around.

 

It is funny to me to read that the DS is to heavy and to big because although I have a Predator it is just as wide as my husbands DS and so is the new Suzuki 450 so tight trails will be tight with those also. I don't have a problem with any of them not having a reverse just don't get stuck and if you do it really isn't that hard to get unstuck I am a girl and I can do it no problem I am not trying to start anything just want to state the facts. There are also may people that buy Raptors for instance and then realize that they are to narrow to have alot of fun with and they end up putting longer axles and a-arms on them to make them more stable. So then there you are hard to get around in tight quarters. Well I don't know it is JMO but I would say the DS is just fine since I can handle it ok. Sorry I really am not trying to start anything just stating a fact.

 

I guess the reverse thing is lost on me, my wife weighs maybe 100lbs and rides an 04 X i have never once had her ask about a reverse. I for one have never seen the need to go backward? oh well to each there own [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Has far as the size gos if I sit on my buddies rapter it feels like a toy. I like the couch! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Oh.... and I like my Harley too! No oil on my floor. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

cynik, while I can see your point of view, I can tell you have never ridden the northern/eastern woods or in any significant mud/snow. My stock width YFZ is a tight squeeze in many places up here. I wouldn't buy the new Quadracer for trails either, just to wide. Reverse can make up for width to a point though. I tried helping a V-Force out of a mud hole one time, with just two of us it was next to impossible to budge that thing. WIth my 350lb quad, I can usually lift one end at a time by myself and get the wheels onto firmer ground. If I lived in a climate more like yours though, I'm sure the DS would be a much more attractive ride.

 

I do understand, No I haven't ridden over were you are. But I don't have great riding conditions over here either I don't live near Vegas were it is usually nice and warm but here it is still crappy weather Real muddy and snow in alot of area's My bike doesn't get good traction in the snow so I don't ride in it. My husband with his DS goes up into the Lamoille Canyon ( the Ruby Mnts.) and he does get stuck and still gets it out and has a blast But there isn't really tight trails that is true. But really the YFZ isn't a huge amount of difference in width but really to each there own and I will not put down anyones bike because they are all nice and serve different people differently and that is all good to me. You ride what you like and I will ride what I like and we will both be happy. Have a good day and Just keep riding and being happy.

 

I don't have a problem with any of them not having a reverse just don't get stuck and if you do it really isn't that hard to get unstuck I am a girl and I can do it no problem>>>>>>>

It's a problem when your trail is about as wide as your tires and it just ends with a 200ft embankment on one side and the side of the hill on the other.....a real problem.

 

LOL, I just ran into this exact situation last weekend. A huge tree had fallen over the trail, which was a strip of land between a pond and a dropoff/gully. It was only about a foot wider than my quad. Luckily I was able to pick her up and turn it around though[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Just for reference, the DS 650X is 77"x48"x47" and 495lbs stock

A YFZ is 72.4"x46.1"x42.9" and 350lbs.

I'm not putting the DS down, in fact I think they are pretty cool quads. They aren't very popular in my neck of the woods though due to size, weight, and lack of reverse. This is why I think they get underrated.

 

I do understand I really do like the yfz it is a great bike. I just prefer others over it I also understand the width thing and I also do understand the weight. Thank goodness I have never had to deal with that tight of a trail. Width still isn't that huge of a difference. And I have been stuck good before on both my Pred and my husbands DS I was still able to get out of it on my own. LOL