Ron, I will have to disagree with ya. They make 400hp+ kits for v-8's, cuz people use them.

I dont believe in any efficiency barrier with forced induction. Its like saying an engine can only take so much boost before it looses power. Thats incorrect. An engine can take as much boost as you can put to it, as long as the motor holds and you can get fuel to it. Nitrous is the same, its just done differently.

If all I wanted to do was run nitrous all the time, I would throw in a 8-1 piston, and go with atleast a 50 shot. That few hp I loose with the 8-1 will get ate up quickly with the nitrous. But I want to run on motor as well, so I dont.

 

I found a nice little bit about detonation counters, its for street bikes but interesting none the less.


Detonation

Detonation will occur at before or after the maximum output speeds (if peak speed is 12500 rpm, detonation occurrence ranges from 12250 to 12750 rpm). Detonation seldom occurs outside these speed ranges.
As shown below, 5th and 6th gears provide less acceleration than 1st and 2nd gears where there is extended use of these detonation range speeds. For this, circuits with more acceleration and deceleration frequencies give less detonation occurrence than circuits where there is extended use of wide open throttle operation using 5th and 6th gears.
Frequent use of low ratio and 12750 rpm and over resulting from ratio choices will control propensity toward detonation. Also, distinct behavior of driving will result in less detonation associated with partial throttle opening.




In the engine output characteristics figure shown above, peak speed are changing, depending on wide open throttle to partial throttle. Accordingly, detonation occurrence ranges may vary with throttle opening. Detonation may suddenly take place when returning throttle from fully wide-open throttle at 11000 rpm.


Counting at fully wide open ranges tends to lead to damages, but counting at partial range will lead to less damages. Accordingly, you should find your base because counts are different from rider behaviors to course lay outs.


Criteria for detonation counter

Many riders seem to have detonation counters fitted on their machines for information used for settings. Both the RS125R and RS250R should have detonation counter numbers of one to two per kilometer as criteria.
In the case of the Suzuka Circuit with one lap length of about 6 kilometer, the criteria for the counter will be 12 per lap.
As mentioned before, detonation will occur in needle ranges such as partial throttles as well as the fully open main region. You should check where values gained from the counters occur. One to two/km in the main region are recommended.

Countermeasures against detonation

Even rich settings may lead to detonation for the following reasons.

Damaged pistons or heads are found at the engine maintenance.

(CAUSE)
• High secondary compression
• Advanced ignition timing
• Chambers or silencers have been replaced or have deformation or dents
• Secondary air is breathed in
• Fuel strainers or tank one-way valves are clogged
• Old gasoline is used
• JET NEEDLE, SLOW JET, or PWJ other than MAIN JET are lean Too early power jet cut

No engine damage is found but too may count numbers found.

(CAUSE)
• Defective tightening torque for counter sensors
• Counter sensor or counter body is picking up vibration
• Counter cord is picking up electrical noises
• Disconnected counter cord
• Lack of counter voltage
• Previously damaged pistons or heads are used

The engines is damaged, but no count found.

(CAUSE)
• Sensor tightening torque is below specified
• Failed sensor/counter
• Disconnected coupler or ingress of water
• Defective carburetor (check float movement)




Also, I talked with good friend of mine, and he looked at my piston. It looks like I had detonation, and heat. So I was lean. So its a matter of jetting. On and off nitrous. All motor cant do the damage that was done, so it happend on the button. So if thats the case, it was too cold to run the nitrous at the said settings. So that means I would have to adjust the nitrous as well as the carbs to regain correct mixture. Now I could have been lean when it was warm, and my tuning ways were incorrect. So the cold air could have just made it worse.

 

Do you still work Jed? Or just think about motors and type on the net? That was a long post by anyones standards.

 

You have run a lot more NOS than I have so I will defer for now...............but I will have to stand by theory. I believe it to be true. I don't think the 8:1 piston idea will work because of the combustion problems with too much Nitrous in the mix. I may be off on the exact threshhold on our motors, we may be able to efficiently run a 35 or 40 shot but that would be a testiment to how much air these bad boys are pumping[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Justin, I copy and pasted that, lol. But I have been taking it easy for a few weeks, my back is giving me fits again. So thats why I have been on so much.

Ron, I think I follow your idea. You can only get so much nitrous through the valves type of a deal. I dont know that answer either, but there must be a limit.

 

Jed,

Its not as complex as you are making it. Just run enough octane on motor only, get the best horspower out of it and simply push the button. Thats the best advice that I can give you.

If you want to be your own rocket scientist ...... just give me some distance to get out of the way when you fire it up! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Pump gas is fine on my motor. Are you saying to run pump gas and push the button?

 

OK I think ya'll finally, mabye, kinda, convinced me. Not enough octane, there were signs of deto. on the plug, not totally convinced I was lean at all on carb.

Marky you say exhast gas analyzer is the best, but assuming I start using the correct octane (110 right?) on nitrous with a 12:1 and a 20 shot, a good digital a/f monitor like on-dunes carries will keep me tunned in to the correct carb jetting and protect against these issues happening again when the weather goes nuts or I go to Glamis or Dumont next spring?

Ya I'm just stupid enough and addicted to speed and the rush to want to keep running it even though my brain says quite screwing around with this crap your bike was running awsome before you toasted it!

So I guess where I'm at is I WILL NOT be using nitrous again until I get an A/F monitor on my bike. I gotta let my brain win a few of these battles.

BTW I appreciate everyones offers of help in getting it running again, you know who you are, thanks again.

Yes Jed I'm going to go to sleep now, I've been awake for over 36 hours.

 

I have read comments going both ways here lately. I just found a website that is FAQ about NOS. They said there is no limit to how much NOS you can run through a motor. The only limitation is strength of the internal parts and whether they hold up.

Gotta read s'more[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Nate,

Your brain made the mistake of letting you run LESS than 110. You are not rocket a scientist. I suggest that you simply run enough octane and push the button and have fun.

I could say more, but Im gonna bite my tougue! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]