That guy didnt have the anaylzer that weekend up at St Anthony. He just got it and got his training yesterday! LOL. The numbers will come on Monday when I get mine - they are closed until then.

 

Oh and by the way, are you and 2BIG gonna start a new fad with the whole rainbow thing? If so, can you give me some warning so I dont have to see you guys together in the same rail? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

 

Hey, I will still need a co pilot. Scott will be riding his rainbow Ds along side us in the rail, all with our shirts off, bandana's on our foreheads, singing along to the Beagie's,lol.

Now that is pimping!!

 

Alright, Nate and I had a conversation about our problems last weekend. After thinking and talking about it, I have another thought. The way they say to tune the nitrous, is to keep leaning it out until it runs clean. Well when you get close the only part that does not run clean, is after you let off, it loads the motor alittle, then cleans up and your good to go. What i am thinking here is, I changed my mounting point for the button to my right index finger, so that would free up my shifting hand. I normally use a microswitch, but for tuning decided to use the button.

Well to use the tuning method mentioned, you have to let off the button before you let off the gas. Well I dont think I was, as I am sure I was letting off the button at the same time I let off the gas. So in theory, I was shutting the carb off and stopping the nitrous flow, and I still had the fuel going in. So my theory is that maybe I was lean, and the deal with the fuel still going in, was making it seem like I was still rich, in turn I keep turning in the fuel manager, to take it away, even though I was lean. I did turn the fuel manager in another 1/4 turn that day, making it lean, and potentially worse.

Nate has the exact same problem I do, but on a slightly less degree. He still has the same parts that needs to be replace (And if anybody has a cylinder for cheap or free he could sure use the help), but his piston was not as damaged as mine.

So if in fact we were both lean, that could be the cause of the carbs being lean. But I think he was rich on his carb settings, so although I think I was lean, I dont think he was. So that leaves us to the nitrous. While I know its the root of the cause, I dont know if its a failure or not. The system was suppose to adjust for the temp difference, and that is the only question. As for the fuel, Jeremey was running his Boonies kit that same day with a 25 shot in on the mix that mentioned. So I dont think that is the problem with Nates. It comes down to when the weather changed, did the nitrous compensate, and was it suppose to?

I know I was on all motor when it started blowing smoke, but dont feel there is any way I could have done the kind of damage done on all motor. So I think its a coinsidence that it started smoking when it did. After talking with Nate, I dont think it was his carb or fuel.

Now I am not saying I think its the Noss's fault either, but the nitrous.

 

Jed,

In my opinion, after talking extensivley with Nate, and the octane he was running, and also consulting with an independant mechanic I believe he was too lean on motor. 97-98 octane is just barely enough to run a 12:1 piston at our elevation. Now add a drop of 40 degrees. Ask any local builder about those conditions and I think you'll come to the same conclusion as me.

Octane is one thing that shouldn't be skimped on. Even if you hook up an air/fuel meter, and get an acceptable level of jetting with low octane, when environmental changes occur, it will become unstable. Which is why riders should always run what your piston manufacturer recommends or even a bit more.

I personally inspected Nates system, and nitrous and fuel from the system were flowing correctly when the button was pressed. I've never seen an intermittant stuck shut on a fuel solinoid. Its much more possible to have a stuck open, which sometimes occurs if something in the tank gets past the fuel filter and sticks on the valve of the fuel solinoid. This could only occur if there was no fuel filter, or the fuel filter was so clogged that no fuel could get through. The fuel filters used in these systems are excellent, and you can look right through them to see if there is any dirt in them. Nates looked excellent.

I know its sometimes hard to think about the obvious, but when the facts point themselves in one obvious direction, there's not much else to be done but fix what you know is wrong.

If I had a stock cylinder laying around I'd be the first to let Nate have it. It tears me up inside to think he's out of riding for the entire summer. I know he'll not be the first to have a quad down for sometime. I have had mechanical issues with my EX - which include a failed clutch, a failed starter solinoid, a bad CDI box, shorted out battery, and even a tempermental carb. Its cost me many weekends of riding - most of which I still was at the dunes anyways - watching buddies and friends have a great time. Most of this issues with my EX were caused by other items which I added, modified or tweeked. I've been lucky on my engine itself - I've only replaced two pistons since 2001, and both of them were simple changes in my compression strategy.

As has been said here before, we all learn through trial and error. Even though things are explained, written down, and even recommendations given, we still sometimes choose to try it our own way. I can tell you that I too re-jetted my EX carb for Saint Anthony - I was wrong! Thank God I had a bit more octane than what I needed to cover my mistake - or my EX too would have been right with yours and Nates.

Marky

PS - If the regulator was bad, the 40 degree drop in temp would have actually decreased the nitrous flow, not increased it.

 

Marky, I run my wifes 14-1 bike on my mix. Thats half 110 and half 91. 12-1 is 91 octane safe at this altitude. Heck thats whats in Majors gixxer, and most bike motors. I have ran extensively more nitrous than him on that same piston, with the same mix, for a year. BUT, I have never ridden it on that cold of a day. So thats the only parameter that I dont personally know. I am glad his system checked out, that makes me feel better. I do know it comes down to Octane, temperature, and Fuel mixture. All of these I am sure had an effect on the cause, I just want to know the exact cause.

If I hide a problem with octane, it doesnt solve the problem, it masks it. If I hide the problem with more fuel, it doesnt solve the problem, is masks it. Until I am confindent in knowing what happened exactly, I wont feel confident in it. But I will find the problem.

As for Nate. He wont be down all summer, trust me!

 

Jed,

I'd be happy to give you some names of independant local builders who know about the temp changes and oxygen levels and how they affect A/F. I know its going to be difficult to hear it from me, considering the employer I work for. Perhaps some independant expertise will help clear the air. You might consider any one of many Oregon Builders who run into this temp issue all the time. Actually, its what keeps many of those guys busy in the winter months - rebuilding the ATVs that go lean in those cool months. I'll email you some telephone numbers tomorrow.

For sleds, its exactly the opposite. Many guys test and tune snowmobiles in temps lower than 0 degrees F. Then they try and ride in 35-40 degree weather in the early spring and they run rich- and the sleds act pretty doggy - well at least the carbed ones. The EFI ones have pressure and temp sensors to adjust for elevation and outside temp. Which is why those rarely have problems. I do believe that Major's Gixxer has EFI with those sensors on the intake.

As far as masking goes, I catch your drift. I honestly dont think anybody is doing any masking on here from a parts standpoint. I sincerely hope that you are considering the other quads, including Brindleys, that had issues - whether it be on or off of nitrous. All I ask is some thoughtfull research. While I dont think you were too lean at our normal summer riding temps, I do think there is some usefull knowlege eluding you with regard to temperature drops and exactly how much extra oxygen (as a percentage) is available at those temps, and how running lower octane levels can affect that both on and off nitrous.

Just so you know, I have called Dobeck Performance, who some might consider one of the best experts in terms of Air/Fuel that are around. I can only tell you that I feel very comfortable in what I have learned so far.

 

What up Jed?
Man sorry about the bad luck, I was wanting to run ya on monday but everyone was bailing on sunday!!
Oh well maybe next time.


Brindley broke a rod and ruined his cylinder,cases,rod,piston and who know what else in the bottom end it looked like a bomb went off in there!!

Mine is running great just burning little oil but I know that is my rings causing that, other than that it runs awesome the rest of the weekend!

 

Hey Crapo, that all ours were doing also. It was ring lands on both bikes. They were folding over and pinching the oil deflector and letting oil come through.

I would have ran you all motor with you on the button. I couldnt find a bike there that could run with me so the only time I used the nitrous was to race Major on his gixxer, and for tuning. Thats why this sucks so bad, I didnt even have to use it.

 

I did forget about kade, he did beat me motor to motor. Damn lightwieght bikes,lol!