It sounds like oxgenated fuel is not going to produce any substantial gains and the cost is something to consider when looked at over a riding season.The responses i received were enough to persuade me to stay away from this fuel.Doctorturbo could you elaborate on the benefits that could be had from adding 10-12% alkie to my 110 gas that i will be using.

 

I'll be honest with you; not much.
Let me talk about this for a bit and you can deside.
Playing with fuel is like being a junkie. Once you mix your own brew you have to mix it over and over the same way over and over. If not, your jetting will go to hell. In your case, your at 14 to 1 and if your off very much you will burn a piston faster than you can say "oh sheeeeet."
With straight alkie, as you know you will pick up some power and torque. When it's hot out you will pick up quite a bit of power. When it's cold out, you don't really pick up that much power. That's with 100% alkie. Now your only putting in 10 or so %. So you can see, the gains will be very, very small.
Now you might wonder why I can't use 50% alkie with gas? The reason is you can't. It will phase separate just like water and oil. You can't really go too much above 15% or so depending on the temperature. The colder it is the more risk of phase separating.

So, to make a long story even longer here is the way I see it. If your in a heads up serious racing game where every 100th or even 1000th of a second counts, then yes, I would play with this stuff. Or if your like me and curious about it and just want to play around, then yes I would do it. For what everybody is doing on this board IMHO it's just too much of a hassle. The gains are just too little for the hassle. If you do deside to do this, take a quart jar and dump 90% race gas to 10% alkie and let it sit. Just to make sure you don't get phase separation. Jet up two or three jet sizes and go for it. Check the plugs and dial the jetting in; bump the timing like OMR said (if you can) and your done.

If it were me and I wanted to hassle with things I would hassle with nitrous oxide. The gains are big for very little hassle. But thats just me. Some people don't like or look down on the stuff. Me? I just like the 36% oxygen it gives!!!! And even a small shot can help you out a lot!!!

PS Very good post OMR.

 

Hey Mike, Dell and Jared McCormick run FASTFORWARD in their black Raptors. They swear it makes a 2 bike length difference but the stuff is $24 per 16oz bottle and they use a high concentration..........2 bottles per tank!!!!!............so 1 tank of fuel for them costs about $66.

Not on your life!!!!! lol

I can't verify the gains or the exact cost for sure but it must do a little or they wouldn't spend that kind of money.................


I run 92 pump premium and I can walk away from those guys with authority now! lol............they call it cheating!

 

Doctorturbo thank you for that informative post.I may someday decide to try Nitrous but for now will stick with just my 110 fuel.

 

Ron you have got to be kidding!!!$24 for 16 ounces,ouch.I am not that serious about this game to be paying out that much for fuel additives and besides i think the wife would have a little something to say about an expense like that.LOL.I dont have false expectations of being the fastest on the hill but i thought if the oxygenated fuels were providing a good gain i would try them but it sounds like it would not be worth it.I should be happy with the performance i will have with my DS and my new mods but we will see.You and Tony have fun at Florence tomorrow.

 

Did I mention the nasty smell (VP 4).
Something I've thought about and can't find any info on is using a RC car type nitro mix, say about 30%, using something like a windshield squirter setup and injecting it into the motor like nitrous.
I know turbo and supercharger cars are using water mist injection to control detonation and also toss in alcohol, in the 60's Olds had water injection and you could buy alcohol to add to the tank called "Rocket fuel" I believe (Olds Rocket 88). Anyway, I'm rambling but I'm sure it's been done, why wouldn't this work, anyone have a thought?

 

Mike..........This is what I use in my Dune Bike. I like it, You can add as much as you want. I run 1 can to 5 gals of pump premium, Man what a difference it makes in throttle response.

Jetting (and COST) is a factor with this stuff also......... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

I can attest to the Klotz giving a boost in TQ and throttle responce as well. I ran this in my 700R when it was internally stock and had it mapped for it on the Dyno. I tryed the U4 in it at Dune fest, I bought a 5 gal bucket at 15.00 a gal [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] I mixed it close to 50/50 with pump premium and I actually felt a decrease in performance with the U4 even after I fattened my map up first 2% then 4%. As soon as I ran that tank out I went back to 1 can of Klotz to 5 gal of pump premium and bam just like I flipped a switch my bike felt nice and snappy again. The stuff does work but at 10.00 a can it is a little spendy but it is way cheaper than U4 at a cost of 25.00 for 5 gal for the klotz mixed with pump premium VS 75.00 for 5 gal for the U4 and I feel it provides better performance based on my limited experience with it. Now mixing it with race fuel may yield different results. I ended up giving the rest of the can of U4 to Big D so he might be able to make a comparision between it and U4 as well. It's something to try if your looking to experiment [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Mystereid I "think" it was Shotgun that had a setup like this. If I remember right it was him???
If you into this kind of stuff you can make your own additive to go in the gas. I don't know for sure because I've never ran the additive, but I think all they do is put some nitro in some alkie and put a mixing rate on the bottle and there you have it.
I never did play with nitro much because I don't like the stuff. It's expensive and it's hard on parts and it detonates in the engine if you look at it wrong.
If one is in the mood they can buy a gallon of nitro from a race shop and a fiver of alkie and mix a little batch up and dump it in the tank.

RULES TO REMEMBER:
Nitro will NOT go into gasoline. It will phase separate, just like oil and water.
Nitro will go into alkie. Any % will work; no phase separation.
Alkie will go into gasoline in small amounts. 15% or less is safe.
Nitro likes a ton of advance.
One more rule. Nitro detonates VERY easily. If you have a high compression engine; go easy on this stuff!!!!

See where I'm going with this????

If anybody tries this, please go easy and sneak up on the tune.
One last thing. If your blowing up parts with straight gasoline do you think it will be any better messing around with nitromethane?

 

If you want more power. . . go Alky. . . U4 is basically a Rich-Man's Alky. . .

U4 eats up parts. I've seen carbs, gas tanks and even seats that have had it spilt on just crumble up after a while.
Hmmmm. What's Alky do???

I'm not big on the U4. . . the stuff stinks bad too. Also seems like it can go bad quickly. So, as DSNut was saying. . . if you buy 5-gal for a weekend and only use 3-gallons. . . you may have to throw out the other two gallons anyways as they'll be bad by the time the next trip comes around.