come on guys. don't pick on underdog... he's new here. be nice for at least his first 10 post or so. i have a 12 hp motor from a generatur that might work sweet. call metal tech in AZ. FOR YOUR SWING ARM they should be able to hook you up. i must admit that i am enjoying this thread an awful lot. maybe this design is to be used in China. those people make the motor and are much smaller than we are, with the traffic and large population a 6 mph car/bike/quad may be just the ticket.

 

IF THIS IS A REAL POST I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE SOME PICS WHEN COMPLETED AND TOP SPEED I DONT KNOW IF IT WOULD BE EASIER TO JUST USE A GOLF CART BECAUSE THATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOUR GOING TO END UP WITH GOOD LUCK KEEP US POSTED[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Ya'll need to rent and watch, "The Worlds Fastest Indian", story of Burt Monroe...

 

Okay you ATV experts, here's why we decided to try the DS250 first. It shouldn't be the only prototype that we do. We'll probably try other ATV's, but an ATV has to meet some basic criteria if it has any shot in h?ll of being turned into a viable commuter vehicle.

And just so it's all clear, I'm not gonna be hindered by the scoffing because I've already begun, and my sponsor knows it may not work. Besides it's kind of entertaining, really, and I expect some scoffing from somewhere since even I think it's a crazy idea. I'm just glad I didn't ask this forum first.

And I know I don't owe you guys any explanation, really. I ain't tryin to play in your sandbox. So this is for your benefit mostly and probably a little bit for mine too since you guys are the experts and I'll be adding your knowledge and experience to my plan.

1. Why 250cc and why an ATV?

a. We wanted to do everything new off the shelf, so it wasn't going to be a junkyard special. You and your dog might ride it but wouldn't be able to sell it to anyone's grandmother. 250cc was the smallest we would go because nothing smaller will get even a scooter close to freeway speeds. Top speed goal is 80 mph in 12 to 15 seconds. No scooter (or ATV) smaller than 250cc claims that top speed. Scooters and motorcycles have bad aerodynamics intrinsically and get more and more drag the faster they go. (That's why Burt Munroe's bike was shaped like it was) That brings the next reason for choosing a 250cc motor.

b. Gas mileage increases the smaller the engine gets. To make any splash this commuter vehicle needed to get better gas mileage than Scootergptx's Yugo, DStroyer's Pinto, bombrider's VW, or BajaX04's golf carts. 250cc mopeds' range between 60 and 90 mpg and once again have terrible aerodynamics naturally which pulls down the gas mileage, especially at highway speeds.

c. We could have started with a moped but would have had to fabricate a whole front end suspension for two wheels up front. That's more time and hassle than we wanted.

d. An enclosed 3-wheeler is naturally safer than any 2-wheeled scooter or motorcycle. One of you said it would be a coffin on wheels. That would make your body last longer than throwing it into the ground with nothing around it which is what a motorcycle would do. And I'm sure lots of you ride motorcycles and are fine with that risk. With the center of gravity right, steering is much more manageable at highway speeds in a 3-wheeler with rack-and-pinion steering than any scooter.

Now we knew we wanted to try a 250cc ATV (as opposed to a Yugo, VW, scooter, lawnmower, harvester combine, etc. Which ATV now?

2. Requirements for an ATV (are any of these wrong assumptions?)

a. It needed heavy duty suspension since we would be adding more weight to it. Sport ATV's are made for jumping 10 feet off the ground (as opposed to utility ATV's).

b. It needed to be water cooled since we would be taxing the engine more than if it was just an ATV. It's rare to find a 250cc ATV that's water cooled. Usually it's not necessary for an ATV that small to need the water cooling. Water cooling also gives the option to bring heat into the cabin and defroster to the windshield.

c. It needed to have disc brakes all around since we would be adding more weight. We would need the extra stopping capacity.

d. It needed one shock in the back because we would only need one wheel back there. (Four wheels and we'd have to be meeting automobile standards and emissions instead of motorcycle)

e. It needed to be chain driven since that would give us the most flexibility to adjust the top speed. Shaft driven would be much tougher to modify.

f. We thought we would need manual transmission, but the CVT will probably be better with less hassle and get better gas mileage.

g. Cost. It needed to be cheap if it was going to be off the shelf. We're trying to be more affordable than a $10K new Hyundai or Kia.

h. Quality had to exceed the sketchiness of stuff made in mainland China. We didn't want to get in or get anyone else into that black hole.

It came down to the CanAm DS250 or the Kymco 250MX. Both are made in Taiwan, right? Maybe the CanAm is made in Korea. I forget now as long as it's not made in mainland China. I got a better deal on 2 CanAms than on 2 Kymcos.

There you have it, FatHolly and everyone else out there. I may have left some things out, but I don't think so.

Chum in the water for you sharks. Raw meat inside the fence for you tough ATV bulldogs. Piles of feed in the coop for you Foghorn Leghorn roosters. Take your best shot(s) and give me some easy practical ways to lengthen the vehicle which would make it look better, handle better, and haul people better.

 

If this "project 3 wheeler" was for someone in a wheelchair I think we would actually give sympathy help to the very end. However this seems like your looking to just make these for profit.....so yeah your going to hear it straight up and cold as it gets.

Why would you pay 3k (a guess) for a quad that doesnt have even 1 item you can use? Seriously, that engine will not work for your project. The CVT, wow, you better know your auto clutch cuz I smell a belt smokin already. I had a polaris 250 and played with the springs and weights in the CVT.........with this added weight your going to have an issue right there. As far as better mileage with a CVT your going to dump fuel like crazy trying to get it to lock because you will have to put in high rev weights and springs to get this weight to move! If your looking for 80mph...you must be thinking gears will get you there.....sorry its not that easy. It takes more horsepower than 21hp....yeah at best that DS250 is around 21hp. Try a DS650 with this project and at least you will have shocks that have the travel you mention 12" of it on a DS650. The engine is Rotax and can easily make 50hp and have ALOT of torque to get the "project" in motion. You can also bolt on the BMW (same Rotax 650) fuel injection if its in your "project" and get the optimal fuel mileage.

This is why we are laughing at this DS250....its possibly the worst ATV for your "project". Try to take that as help and not bashing. There are so many other options. Even a motorcycle conversion is way way easier to make your "project". They already have made it and they are very cool. http://reversetrike.com/t-rex.html and http://reversetrike.com/brudeli.html or http://reversetrike.com/vtrod.html

Your right I see no 250cc engines.........but for a reason!

 

So do you have a time frame in which you are wanting to get this done?

Seriously, good luck with the project.

Are you doing this in Austin? Wouldn't mind stopping off on one of my trips through to see it.

And with all the things that have been said, it does show you have determination and a sense of humor. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

a ds250 needs to be made extremely aerodynamic to hit 80mph, i dont think 80mph will be possible though, 70 IS possible, i've had mine going that fast on a HUGE hill,

A stock ds250 has NO WAY of touching the rev limit on a flat straight away, on a really big hill you might com close, i think a ds250 should hit around 75 mph with the stock rev limit...

but to make it accelerate quicker, i would put on a 41 tooth rear sprocket (this will lower the top speed by about 5mph though) for a kymco 250 and find out how to make this exhaust fit on your ds250, you should do what ever possible to squize power out of it. http://www.epfguzzi.com/kymcobiz/acc...v/exhaust.html

Your project might be possible, i would try to put a dirtbike swingarm on if possible, and try to make the front end much wider.

GOOD LUCK

 

LOL.... I got nothing... good luck dude.

 

Underdog is not serious about this project. He is just messing with some boys on the internet. If he puts his presentation together in an outline, there is no way he could think this is a good idea.

I for one think the attempt is hilarious and it sounds like something I would do on the internet. My hat is off to you underdog.

Ron

 

Come on......your smoking crack! 70mph on a DS250......do you have a speedometer? Dont get his hopes up with crap like that. If you feel wind rushing past your face, that doesn't mean your going 70mph....thats 40mph.