There a SOOOO many threads called, "ds650 vs rappy 700", "ds or rappy" or something like that.

In each thread, many people say that you can't go wrong with either one if you decide to purchase one...... BUT THEY DO SAY- "BUT THE DS IS OUTDATED COMPARED TO THE RAPTOR

Pretty soon- the ds650 WILL be discontinued. It was introduced under the "old system" when It was still called BOMBARDIER and not CAN-AM, and since "CAN-AM" is trying to make the best products possible it probably will discontinue OR update the ds650 because it is outdated.

But what exactly does it mean to "not be outdated"???? aluminum frames? efi? reverse on a racer? "high tech suspension"????

Wouldnt it be nice if the ds650 WAS updated, instead of just getting new plastic each year (well i dont think they did even THAT for 2006 or 2007)

Would an oversized/thick-tubed aluminum frame, (to keep the same strength as the thick steel frame) EFI, Higher compression, (because it is an easy way to add a few ponies- which can-am is all about-power) Reverse, and some nice suspension like on the 450's or the Predator TLD make it "up to date"

It would definitely be a really nice machine- efi is the thing for the future, same with aluminum- and reverse is becoming common on many sport quads (just look at how many quads received reverse in the past 2 years) And the aluminum frame might even shave off 15-25lbs. BUT WOULD IT BE ENOUGH TO TAKE ON THE RAPTOR 700R AND THE KFX450R? I HOPE SO- it has the power, the comfort, and with some suspension upgrades- it will even be good in the handling department

If they dont do this- they had better be working their @$$es off on the 450

 

Yes efi would be great, but Can-Am needs to look at what we have all done to ours to get an idea. Most everyone who has modded theirs has put in higher comp and a set of cams and changed the cdi in some way, maybe install updated shocks for the front and probably at least an aluminum subframe to lighten it up. Just my $0.02

 

why would the ds650 need a rev box? what is the stock limit? 8900? i know it was raised at some point, it was 7700 in 2004 i think- or is the timing not aggressive enough?

and i dont think people would mind paying the same price for the ds650 as the renegade- if they changed the ds650 with efi and other goodies that would allow it to beat the renegade in everything except technical trails and mudding

just imagine how many sales they could potentially make- just look at how many people can afford outty 800's they could also afford a gade or a ds. even if they had to sell their outties.

a ds700 or ds750 would be cool too- just get a modified 730 kit or a modified 720 kit

 

The prototype DS used an air cooled rotax engine and a chromoly frame, I think it was kick start but cant recall. Anyway the package was under 400 lbs and sounded great. The motor got upgraded to water cooled and electric start, and for cost, reg steel used in the frame. These things added weight and to make sure it was durable, Bombardier really went overkill on the construction of the frame, swingarm, hubs and axle.

I don't see CAN-AM doing a drastic overhaul on the DS and it's far from a bad bike, it's just that there are so many good bikes to choose from. So it comes down to making a special edition DS that wouldn't cost the factory much to change.

I've always wondered what would happen if they would just order their next tubing and plate about a third thinner. Leave the lower a-arms alone but I think the rest of the chassis could take it. That should knock a good 50lbs off a DS and they wouldn't have to change their framing jigs.
The hubs got lightened but not enough, bent axles are really rare, they could be downsized slightly, better quality shocks, Factory 11.5 to one compression. Maybe make a deal with Lectron or Edelbrock for a limited number of carbs. They screwed up with the shorter swingarm, it needs to be +2 over the new shorter version. If the factory put on cheap plastic shrouds they could probably downsize the radiator alittle too.

If the buying public got ahold of a bike like this and lost the front fenders, bought a lightweight pipe and light sand tires-rims, this DS should be around 100lbs lighter than a standard stock DS, and about 65 lbs lighter than my bike.

So we don't get a high tech wonder frame, no reverse or efi but if they only tacked on about $250 for the carb and piston changes pricewise they would really have something to compete with against the raptor.

 

I wouldnt call it overkill, Bombardier went hardcore on things like the motor and the axle to assure good quality and durability, this is why there are so few problems, like u said bent axles are rare b/c it is so tough, if they went with lighter and cheaper things it would make them more like honda and yamaha where aftermarket axles and motor work are NOT rare, so i wouldnt say overkill, things we get stock are good enough to last the life of the machine, a honda 400ex or a yamaha raptor would need those things changed to last half the life of the machine. Im not sayin nothing needs changed, b/c like we've seen they have done a few things diff, like the rev limit and the air box tube construction and the overall size and weight. Maybe down the road we'll see a diff DS, Bombardier has been slow in their process, new bikes are comin out every year and Bomb does need to stay more competitive, so another model or two would be smart, like a 450. Of course this is just my outtake on the DS, wouldnt swap it for any machine in the world [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

personally, I don't mind the extra weight.

I would like to see the 800 efi stuffed into a modded DS frame, with +2 +2 a-arms, a +2 swing arm(old stock size) and the most important thing CHEAP AFTERMARKET MODS

 

Rev limiter was 7500 in 01... i dont think its above 8 still. I would luv to see a little more HP,EFI,reverse. I would be a happy camper. The DS is VERY durable rite now, so i would hate to totally change it

 

nickds650, you could drop a streetbike motor in a DS, add weight and triple the horsepower and those same parts are going to last the life of the machine.
Take a look at your hubs and then find a new Yamaha YFZ and check out what they run for hubs.
I'm not saying I mind the DS being overbuilt, that and it's size are the reason I put money down on mine before they were released. This thread was started as how to make the DS more competitive from the factory with modern updates. I just gave my thoughts from a manufacturing standpoint, which is the most gain from the least cost.
All parts should be balanced in strength to compliment each other, I wouldn't use a lessor axle unless I made a substantial weight change to the bike, then you could get away with slightly less strength.
I doubt many people that take DS's out in the desert or trails really are concerned with the weight, at least until they need to turn the bike around. Weight is whats hurting the DS in the sand, that and the low compression ratio compared to all the new machines.