I am looking at new quads and I am trying to find some info and readers inputs on the DS650 and the Raptor. I am tring to find out how well they work on fire roads and trails as well as on the dunes. I currently have a old 350 Warrior and I want to get someting bigger. Any info. would be helpful. Thanks.

Cobra

 

One thing you might notice about the Raptor is that far and wide (not all by any means) riders are doing things to widen them. Whether it's the low cost option of turning the front rims inside out or spacers. If narrow is so much better, why is it that 400EXs and Raptors which are REALLY hopped up, are always widened? It would appear the narrower ATV setup just isn't as preferable in high performance situations. If it was, wouldn't it seem than you'd see major reviews about Raptors and 400EXs in the magazines that are stock width, and without +1, +2 etc forward/wider A-arms?

 

BlackHawk has a point I wish many other riders would take into consideration. I agree with him completely.

My opionion (from riding both) is that the Bomb is superior in all types of riding, including most trails. If the trees don't grow like a jungle, the Bomb will go just fine. I live in the Black Hills, and have been able to go anywhere my friends on Raptors, Banshees, 400s, Mojaves, and Blasters go. The added narrowness (and top heaviness) of the Raptor makes it a little scary when going sideways on a hill.

The Raptor may be narrower (if that is an advantage?), but is has less ground clearance. The A-arms are also thinner; which means you are more likely to bend them hitting a stump or rock.

I disagree on the short swing arm. It is a terrible combination with the high radiator, causing Raptor riders get tipped backwards. This can happen when trying to jump over logs, hillclimbs, etc.... The fact that the radiator is about as high up as you can put on a Raptor makes it top-heavy and impairs handling.

If you really want to haul down fire roads, the Bomb will feel extra stable.

To me riding a Raptor feels like a TOY, especially in the suspension dept. Ride a DS for a half an hour, then ride a Yamaha. If you are like me, you feel like the Raptor bounces all over, and the wheels are never in contact with the ground.

You will feel more confident riding over any terrain on a DS!

 

My opinion! My friends and I were out riding. A Honda 250R, Polaris 400L, DS 650, and my Raptor. We were at this small track we have out in the woods. We all took turns on each quad every person except the DS owner said the same thing the DS was the worst handling quad of the 3. It did have nice suspension and I hear the Timmy Boy upper a-arms make a world of difference, but stock I thought it sucked, always wanted to turn into the burm, you had to keep adjusting through the turn at one point during each person trying the DS turned it into the bank of a turn except the owner. No such problems on any of the other quads. It is too big for tight trails don't let any one fool you, and with that twitchy steering and wide stance it hits everthing the guy already bent up 3 of the rims and both lower front a-arms and its twice the work through the trails. Another thing they made a mistake on is putting the brake line connection right on the front of the caliper so when you do hit something on those tight trails (Notice when not if) the brake line comes loose and leaks fluid and you lose front brakes (happened twice). Out in the open mind you it is very stable and by far the most comfortable it also has a great engine although I think it could use a bigger front sprocket and that low rev limiter sucks you always seem to hit it in the low gears. The stock tires suck also no traction what so ever it is a much better ride withg the new holeshots he just put on. My 2 cents.

RaptorRider

 

RaptorRider660R~
Were you including the Polaris in the handling comparison? If all of you felt a Polaris handled better than the DS, then you should have either ran the DS WITH air in the tires or ran the race in forward, not reverse. After riding a Polaris Scrambler for 3 years, I still couldn't corner it as well as my DS after only a month of riding. Also, I ride with a Scrambler and 300ex, but have yet to hit anything due to the extra width. Somebody must have fooled me when I bought my DS, but after about 800 miles already, I have not bent a rim, a-arm, or anything else. If the DS is too much work for you to handle on the trails, maybe you're just too weak to handle the machine?

now, my opinion on the machine I own~
handling on the DS is inferior to only a couple other quads and suspension is possibly the best offered on a stock machine. The Kenda tires really do suck, but the radials on the new Baja DS are a huge improvement and further compliment the handling. The rev limiter is somewhat of a nuisance, yet is less of a nuisance than say a broken transmission or blown off carb on the Raptor. Don't worry about the brake lines Raptorrider is talking about. If you happen to catch something with a tire, you got 12 inches of suspension to soak up the blow. Riding the DS down a fire road at 70mph+ is like a walk in the park and throwing it sideways around a corner still feels stable. I'd think I would be a little worried doing that on a machine that is shorter and about 5 inches narrower. Also something to possibly consider is the DS makes more high rpm horsepower so if you have the desire for more topend speed, you could more easily pull higher gearing with the DS than with the raptor. What made me choose the DS over the raptor was the $1300 difference in price. I also wanted something that was a machine(DS) rather than a toy(Raptor).

 

This weekend I went riding with 6 other guys. The group had 3 honda 400 ex's, 1 banshee, 1 polaris 250 2x, a raptor and my DS.
We rode at an area called big lake which is on the santiam pass just behind hoodoo. This has miles of fire roads and cleared snowmobile trails, a couple of hill climbs and about 15 acres of sand.
I love my DS at the dunes, but up on those trails the bike felt twitchy and weird. When the DS came out the test riders all complained about the A-arms steering angles and Bombardier insisted they had designed them perfectly. I guess the new A-arms on the Baja are more perfect. The rear tires are best suited for? asphalt maybe, not for dirt.
I'm sure new A-arms and tires would make a world of difference in how my bike handled, and maybe one day I'll have them as well as skid plates on the A-arms but for now I mainly dune. When you travel on worn in quad trails with a DS you are a poineer. One side is in a rut, the other side is in new territory. All the rocks, roots and trees that everyone has just barely skirted around for years are now yours to find a new way around, over or through.
I guess my point would be that the terrain you ride on the most should weigh heavily with the bike you chose.
I know this thread was started to compare the DS and Raptor but in my opinion the 400ex is the best all around bike if you fit on it. It's a little small. Nice low price, Honda reliability and slightly modified will hang with a stock DS.
I would be too concerned with reliability to consider the Raptor right now. The one in our group went home early, lost his shifter mech internally, drag racing the DS.

 

You are absolutely right I am to weak to work a DS through the trails. See when I go out riding I am looking for enjoyment not work. About the handling I am not saying you could not get used to it or figure out how to ride it, it's just that hopping right off the other 3 they all felt somewhat similar (key word somewhat not exactly) while the Bomb felt totaly different. Of course the 335 pound toy 250R lol handled the best I suppose because the 250R is not 500lbs it must be a toy right? The Raptor felt closest to the 250R the 400L sport did not handle great, but did nothing strange, was it fast no, did it handle great no, what it did was feel normal unlike the twichy handling Bomb. The guy on the bomber rode his plenty fast but everyone else hopping on it could not go nearly as fast, right off the bat. Yet the guy on the bomber could go fast on all the other quads. All three other riders specified they did not like the handling of the DS what do you want me to say. At one point during our ride we actually had to get off our quads and lift the DS over a bridge crossing that was too thin for it to get over. My back still hurts hehe. We just banged the a-arms back straight on the DS with a 10 lbs sledge and a 2X4 sounds funny but it worked great. Do I blame these bent a-arms on cheap product, no just hard riding, and it's harder to avoid the rocks in the trails up here in the northeast, where the rocks are the trails, on the big heavy wide DS. Is the stock suspension better yes, does it soke up more hits yes. There are plenty of places a fixed twitchy front end DS would be a better quad than a Raptor. Tight trails in the northeast is not one of them. It's a nice quad (well made everything is heavy duty) it just needs a little as did my Raptor, and is better suited for a more wide open riding area where all 4 of us agreed it was the best.

We also ran into the National DS riders association while we were out on the trails they had a big get together with all their members, I'll tell you those were two of the nicest guys I've ever met....lol Just joking

RaptorRider660r

 

They are all great quads, they all NEED modifications to reach their potential, hell, just to make them ridable. The DS needs upper a-arms just as badly as a Raptor needs a wider rear axle. The Tires on the Raptor handle well, but are flimsy and get torn up and FLAT easily. The Kendas on the DS suck, they don't hook up, ride hard, slide out of control. WE have as much dough in one as the other. The Raptor is getting the next round, with a HMF quiet core pipe, Maxxis 22" Razrs rear tires, flip the linkage, flip the front wheels. They are both very nice,,,,now,,, and will get better yet. The Baja seems to have most of the bugs worked out, but it is still too heavy.
If you are big you will like the DS better. If you ride in open terrain, like most of the west, you will like the DS better. If you live in the woods and have tight narrow trails you will like the Raptor better. If you like to do wheelies you are better off with the Raptor. If you race MX you should look at a Cannondale or a fully modded 400EX. I keep hoping Honda will put the 450 unicam motor in a race chassis. Now that would be a hot quad. Probably weigh in around 340 lbs.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

Nice objective post Fourlix I couldn't agree more. I did put the axel on mine and I did add Elka's, non of them are perfect we make them perfect for us and the type of riding we do.

Fourlix the guy who has the DS was looking at upper a-arms or a steering damper. Are the timmy boys like night and day as they say? He wants to know if they make a huge difference for the dough $$$. Thx


Nocando

 

The brake line problem I was talking about has nothing to do with suspension. If you run into some small trees or brush on the inside of your front tires it can hit the connection bolt for the front brake lines and loosen it. This causes it to lose fluid and braking. All you need to do is look at just about every other quad and you'll see this bolt is protected just not on the DS. They either come from the back or inside the rim but they cannot be hit the DS bolts right in the front of the caliper. Not a huge deal mind you just explaining what I was talking about.


RaptorRider