So what your saying is be quick on the the clutch and work the throttle with the clutch and shift. Your right why else would they put a lever on the handle bars if it was a auto clutch. I've always believed that but there are alot of people out there that don't use the clutch that much. I dont know about you but I dont have the money for some forks. thanks

 

You can hold the throttle pegged as you shift, commonly refered to as speed shifting, and get a definite advantage doing it, unless the clutch starts to slip as a result. A stock DS handles speed shifting fine, but when HP is increased the clutch becomes easier to slip. Super traction makes it more likely to happen, particularly very aggressive sand paddles, and the hotter the oil gets after several runs, the worse it will begin to slip. You can feel it slip, and everybody around you can hear it happening too. The rpm's will increase when the clutch is pulled, and after letting off the clutch it will take a second or two for the clutch to engage, so the rpm drop is delayed - its a very distinctive sound. If this starts occuring, then speedshifting will actually slow you down instead of help you. Purchasing heavy duty clutch springs from RWR ($24)or Pami ($50) will cure the problem, and work well enough that synthetic oils can then be used.

 

heh bartlett
Were you there in the spring just wondering?? there were alot of raptors there but the only one that was good lost because he redlighted. What kind of mods are you going to run? This mit change the class they put you in. I'm running in a class where the only things that can be done to the atv is pipe and air filter. They will probley put ya in the unlimited class (good luck)..

Northjeepster

 

My 760 has been together for almost two years now and the only time I use the clutch is to dump it on the launch. I both upshift and downshift without the clutch.

Now this motor has been ragged on by magazine riders, potential customers, and friends, for this 1.5+ year period, and did get slightly bent forks, but they started showing up when Dirt Wheels was done with the bike and never got worse after that. I'm also still on the original clutch that came with the bike in 2000.

I rode raced motor cycles for several years on the CCS and WSMC series, as well as some AMA and WERA races. I can tell you for sure that shifting without the cluch is perfectly safe if done properly, but not easy to get perfect. If done to perfection, you will not feel any loss in pull though out the race. A smooth, linier pull is going to be faster than any shift that makes the front feel as though it's lifting. That lift of the front is caused by the loss of acceloration followed by the violent recovery. It may look cool, but it's not the fast way.

This Labor Day weekend, the only four stroke to consistently beat me was Jeffinrivercity, so my clutchless shifting must not be that slow.[The cool raptor dude was really close, but I think I won more against him than I lost, considering my worn out tires and him weighing 50lbs less than me, I think I did OK]

By the way, Bartlettracing, I have a 760 customer in Kenosha, WI, are you sure no DS is going to beat you? I'm not sure he is going to be at the drags, but I'll ask him.

 

You said the magic words - "if done to perfection".
There are a few riders on this forum who have replaced shift forks from learning that the hard way.

Does the guy in Kenosha have his motor?

 

Your right, you can damage things trying to learn, but if you learn, you'll be faster forever.

He has his motor. He overnighted me his carb to set up because he bought it from RWR and hated the way it ran. I've got the combination dialed in now to get perfect throttle responce as well as a light pull from the Mikuni 42, 45, 48MM carbs. People that have tried my bike can attest to the pull being as light as stock, and Sand45 has seen how well I can make it work, even on a 650[he liked it much more than his Lectron with the rudder/throttle{lol}]. I overnighted it back to him today, so he'll be ready tommorow.

 

<< My 760 has been together for almost two years now and the only time I use the clutch is to dump it on the launch. I both upshift and downshift without the clutch.

Now this motor has been ragged on by magazine riders, potential customers, and friends, for this 1.5+ year period, and did get slightly bent forks, but they started showing up when Dirt Wheels was done with the bike and never got worse after that. I'm also still on the original clutch that came with the bike in 2000.

I rode raced motor cycles for several years on the CCS and WSMC series, as well as some AMA and WERA races. I can tell you for sure that shifting without the cluch is perfectly safe if done properly, but not easy to get perfect. If done to perfection, you will not feel any loss in pull though out the race. A smooth, linier pull is going to be faster than any shift that makes the front feel as though it's lifting. That lift of the front is caused by the loss of acceloration followed by the violent recovery. It may look cool, but it's not the fast way.

This Labor Day weekend, the only four stroke to consistently beat me was Jeffinrivercity, so my clutchless shifting must not be that slow.[The cool raptor dude was really close, but I think I won more against him than I lost, considering my worn out tires and him weighing 50lbs less than me, I think I did OK]

By the way, Bartlettracing, I have a 760 customer in Kenosha, WI, are you sure no DS is going to beat you? I'm not sure he is going to be at the drags, but I'll ask him. >>



That lifting feeling should be more than a recovery. If a powershift is done correctly using the clutch then the motor will hit a much higher rpm between the engagement of the next gear. This causes a &quot;flywheel&quot; effect. The inertia of the motor at this high rpm will actually cause the bike to accelerate harder than it normally would because the rest of the drivetrain tries to keep up - thus the front end rises.

 

Boy did I open a can of worms with this subject! I totally understand what knutz is saying. The fact is I need to practice on both ways! Heh knutz do ya have a email for that guy in Kenosha, WI. I like to email him and see if he is coming to the race. Some day I mit want to do an up grade like that and i'd like to see it race. thanks for the input.

 

If your taking long enough to shift to let your motor accelerate, while the quad effectively coasts, you have more than lost the flywheel effect advantage with the rolling resistance suffered while the rear tires receive no power.

A great tool that is allowed in just some clases of racing is an &quot;electronic shifter&quot;. It's a small box that interupts the coils for just a fraction of a second to let the transmision &quot;unload&quot; and move to the next gear. This keeps the air flow into the motor from being disturbed, while still letting the transmision shift without the clutch. You'll find some form of this box integrated into almost every one of the higher forms of drag racing that actually uses a manual transmision. Air shifters often have these built into them as well.

Short of setting your bike up with a shift box like this, simply letting up on the throttle while &quot;loading&quot; the shift selector is the next quickest shift. You can count on the &quot;flywheel&quot; to keep motor momentum up while the air flow is interupted, and recovery is so quick that it's almost imperseptable. Many a lady has riden on the back of a street bike with me and been surprized when her helmet doesn't bounce off of mine when I shift, like it does when her boyfriend/husband/brother shifts.

For downshifts, simply &quot;goose&quot; the throttle a bit. It takes a while to learn exactly how much throttle to chop or goose, but it's like glass when done.

I'm not trying to argue, just state what I know on a subject I've studied and practiced for a long time.

BTW- You can &quot;chop&quot; the throttle alot less when upshifting uphill because gravity will unload the tranny quicker. On flats, you have to chop it for a bit longer, but we're talking about hundreths of a second.

I can't give out a customers info, but I have to call him tommorow to see if he got the carb. I'll ask him.

 

Its a matter of walking a fine line. Take too long to shift and the flywheel effect won't justify the shift. Do it just right and you can shave .01's off your E.T.

The best acceleration would be no shifting. An efficient CVT will walk all over a manual tranny. The motor stays at peak hp the entire time, can't beat it.