OKBow...

Let me tell you why I have a bit of a negative opinon of law enforcement. I personally know two (used to know them have not spoken to them in years) individuals in the law enforcement community. They have openly told me things that they have done (and probably continue to do) such as when finding a stolen car, they go through and check out any CD's in the car...if they find one they like they take it because the theft of the CD will naturally be blamed on the indicuduals who stole the vehicle to begin with. Another cop I used to know told me that he has comitted perjury one more than one occasion to save face at trial.

Let me tell you another thing that wonderful members of the law enforcement community have done for me personally. While driving to work one day during a heavy rain I lost control of my vehicle and slid off over into the ditch and was stuck. I called my wrecker and was waiting for him. I did not impact another vehicle. I did not impact any city property. I did not tear anything up at all other than the bumper of my truck (and that was minor). The incident occurred at 6:30 AM...the wrecker told me that he would be running a little late but that he would be there. At approximately 8:00 AM the wonderful "Civil Guardian and Protector of the Realm" showed up and asked me if I was okay. I confirmed that I was fine and was just waiting on the wrecker. He asked me what happened and I told him I wasn't sure. I may have hydroplaned or something but I lost control of my vehicle and slid over into the ditch. He went over in his car and started writing me a ticket. Meanwhile the wrecker driver arrivive and pullled me out of the ditch... When he pulled me out it was discovered that the side wall of my tire had blown out...so it was a blow out that caused me to slide off the road. The wrecker driver and myself pointed this out to Officer Phife but he said, "Well, I've already got this written up so I am gonna go ahead and chalk this up to speed too fast for conditions".... now my question is...he arrived on the scene an hour and a half after the fact...how does he know what speed I was travelling????

You are correct I have no experience as cop...but I am not altogether ignorant of the system either...I do have a degree in Law Enforcement Administration from the University of Oklahoma.

I am not saying that all law enforcement is corrupt...we have one member of law enforcement in our club that I am happy to call my friend and I have ridden with on many occasions and I like him really well. I am just saying that my knowledge of the way ODWC officers aka game rangers interpret and enforce the regulations regarding ATV riders is assenine. There are NO POSTED signs designating where you may or may not ride. Furhtermore they do not seem to have any STANDARDS that they apply when enforcing these rules. What one Ranger may consider off limits, another may allow you to ride on...the guys I have spoken to who were written up said there was absolutely nothing posted to indicate that the trail they were riding on was off limits. IF they are going act capriciously and not adopt a standard criteria of what constitutes permissible riding areas then they should not be writing tickets for merely riding ATV's.

Bob "Said still more of my piece" Bobman

 

LOL is haydood a geriatric, or what?

 

oxbow is a ranger?

whats the matter? couldn't get on welfare?



-heywood-

 

LOL

he's a small town cop?

he IS on welfare.



-heywood-

 

Nice to see the ATV club hoppin at least. What we need I guess is some heated discussions. I've only, luckily had great encouters with the police. I got a driving award the other day, the police officer when I was defending myself took me as a smartallic, when he realized I wasn't he at least scratched out and lowered it two miles per hour so it wouldn't go on my record. Really hard thou to tell him what happened, without sounding like a dilbert. Always Yes, Sir, No Sir. Tell ya what, I got caught, I deserved the ticket.

Only grip have with police is there seems to never be one around when I see an idiot driver, only when I'm an idiot I get stopped. =-)

Would suck to get a speeding ticket on the trails with my quad.

At Purcell, this police officer was ordered to give everyone tresspassing on the private rail access road a ticket, he let all of us go home with a warning. But on that note, while shooing us off. A family was trying to run across the tracks with full fishing gear, poles, cooler trying to beat the train??? It's the dumb one's that ruin it for everyone else.

 

I am not going to debate either you about LE Officers, but will say that I am sure that they wouldn't appreciate your blanket statements about them.

Futhermore since you have a degree in Law Enforcement Administration, no doubt you have heard many times that,"Ignorance of the law is not a defense."

Thank you for addressing your own statement that I quoted instead of shifting the subject to why you shouldn't have got a ticket one time and how you allegedly knew some LE Officers that were doing immoral things. Guess since they sucked that must mean they all must suck. Appreciate you clearing that up for everybody.

 

Realizing that ignorance of the law is NOT a defense...it should also be said that not posting an area as being off limits is a poor interpretation of the law. If the area is not posted as being off limits, how does the Ranger know that it IS off limits? The fact is he DOESN'T...if there is nothing to designate the LEGITIMACY of a riding area, then conversely there is nothing to designate the ILLEGITIMACY of the riding area. Ie...if there is no sign to say that it is off limits, Ranger Joe has nothing to tell him that it is off limits.


Also the acts theseofficers eluded to were not alleged, the officers themselves were the ones who told me that they committed these acts. Therefore taking them from alleged to admitted. And also I made the express comment, "I am not saying all law enforcement is corrupt" so therefore I did not paint all law enforcement with a broad brush...For the purpose of this conversation (other than the cops I knew years ago) I am directing it at ODWC officers aka Game Wardens/Game Rangers etc.

I could certainly see the validity in writing a citation to someone for fishing or hunting without a license, disregarding fish and game limits and other laws. But for them to arbitrarily say, "You can ride here, but not here" without having some sort of legal definition to govern where individuals may or may not ride is basically "legislating on the fly" and I do not think that an individual law enforcement officer should have that much lee way. I think he should be able to enforce the law and possibly interpret the law...but certainly not to CREATE the law which is what they are doing when THEY (Not state statutes) determine that a riding area is off limits. If an area is posted then I would be the first one to say, "Write them up." But when an area is unmarked as being legal or illegal there is nothing to inherently say that it is illegal other than the mood of the officer writing the ticket.


Bob "Still speaking my piece" Bobman

 

Don't make me get the hose out you two.

 

Unfortunately, I have seen SEVERAL ATVers throw their trash down at the river. Mike (SuzukiKing) witnessed it too while we were down there riding a few weeks ago.

I went down there both Saturday and Sunday this past weekend and witnessed it again - several times!!!

It really sucks that these guys have no respect for the privilage they've been given. However, I think I know why they have no regard for the area - because there's "no accountability".
There is currently no law enforcement down there for them to answer to. So, they treat the area how they want KNOWING that there'll be no negative repurcussions on them directly.

What I 'd like to see (and I know some folks might disagree with me on this), is to see someone lease the entry point to the river and oversee it. This would enable the leesee to clean it up, regulate it and hold people accountable for their irresponsible actions. And, I firmly believe that this would minimize the deterioration of the area.

Of course, this would mean that it would become a fee area, but I feel it would certainly help rectify the problem. I know it wouldn't make littering go away altogether, but it would be a major step in the right direction. And, it would send a message to those who disrespect the area that it won't be tolerated any longer. And if they step out of line, there WILL be repurcussions.

Now, I understand that there are "private" camps up and down the river and that those folks wouldn't be accountable to the leesee. However, it would send a message to those folks that their behavior is being monitored by the leesee and its patrons. And when people know they're being monitored, they tend to be a little more cooperative.

How would the river be monitored?
I would suggest using a portion of the leesee's fees to pay for a deputy and an ATV to patrol the river. With the presence of law enforcement, EVERYONE (including those who enter from private camps) would be "on notice" that their actions could land them with a fine, or even worse, in jail.

With that said, let me say this, I'm NOT a proponent of more beauracuracy. But I completely detest the way some people treat their privilages. And the only way to change their behavior is to hold them accountable (in my opinion).

James (I don't understand some people's disrespect) Hale

 

Sorry if I sounded harsh but I am a police officer and also a manager of a new off road riding area. I am working my tail off trying to provide a nice area for folks of all riding abilities to enjoy while keeping it scenic and safe. I am a one man show providing security, enforcement as well as cutting the trails and keeping the grounds kept. My career is based on off road riders and I welcome them with open arms.

Of course there are bad eggs out there. As a supervisor on a force I have had to set a few down and bring them back to reality. But we are also the ones that is watching your truck to make sure that your tools stay in it while you are out riding. Add to it I am also making sure your truck and/or trailer are there when you get back. Of course you didn't see us there but you found your stuff where you left it.

I have seen comments on here about myself and my wearing a gun while working at the ranch. Unfortunately it is a part of our equipment. If I never have to draw it in commision of my job I consider my law enforcement career a big success. But if I do, I will fall back on my training and years of experience to do the best to my ability.

One needs to remember, I am the only officer on the ranch and I cover 6,500 acres. That is over 10 square miles of rugged, rural terrain that is hard to tranverse. If I get into a life threatening situation, back up for me might be 30 minutes to an hour away, depending on where I am at.

Don't knock all law enforcement because of one ticket you don't feel you deserve and two idiots that have no morals. Some of us do it for pride and community service. In my case I am salary and don't get paid for hours over 40 per week. Often I put in 12 to 18 hour days and I'm not the only one.

Eastern Oklahoma is the hardest area to patrol for Game Wardens in all of Oklahoma. They not only have to deal with game violations, they are right in the middle of the drug trade. Ever see a game warden in SE Oklahoma with many years of experience? Not many, most of them transfer out when another county opens up.