I am thinking of selling the old 426EX and getting a dune machine. I only ride in the sand dunes. Out of the Raptor, and the C-Dale which one is better in the dunes. I have ridden the C-dale and the power was the same as my Quad now, but the C-dale was just piped. It just doesn't make sense for me to keep building my 426EX up to keep with the other new Quads. Please help!

 

A dedicated duner? It's a tossup between the DS650 and the Raptor (no substitute for displacement). I prefer the Raptor because of the smaller size, but in the November Dirt Wheels they have some pretty cool hopups the the DS from PAMI. Plus the DS comes with 12" of travel. With the Raptor, add a ProDesign air filter kit/Dynojet/ and a slip on pipe and have 48 HP for about 3 hours worth of work. And that's just the beginning. The Raptor also has 680 and 720 kits available. Of course the DS has the 760 kit available from PAMI, but if I recall it's about $5,000 (ouch). If you can try and beg a ride on each next time you're at the dunes. Coming off the Honda, you'll probably like the Raptor better, but the DS was built to be a duner, where the Raptor is more of an all-around ride. I let some Banshee guys ride mine last time and they thought it ripped pretty good. If you're thinking C-dale, you may as well keep the Honda, since the C-dale doesn't have the build potential of the Raptor or the DS because it's starting out at a 320cc disadvantage.

 

I have had the chance of actually testing a DS650 in the dunes (bone stock) and I was very impressed. Unfortunately I have not yet had the pleasure of riding a Raptor, but they say it is the "bomb". Dirt wheels did a sand shootout a few issues back with these two particular quads with mild modifications, and they liked both, but I do recall that they did a few more mods (bucks$) on the Raptor to keep in equal to the DS650.

I myself would probably take the DS650 over the Raptor, for exclusive dune riding.

 

The DS is is too big and heavy, I also like to jump too. To me it sounds like the Raptor has a motor you can build, compared to the c-dale. A piped C-dale has 40HP, and your saying a piped Raptor has 48HP, WOW. I have been trying to get 50HP out of my EX with no luck. I raced piped Raptors at the Dunes and beat them most of the time with my EX. But it could have been the rider. But, won't they be coming out with engine mods for the C-dale? I still Don't know what to do!

 

Following is a post from another forum by raptor720:


Corndog, You must be some back woods rocket scientist.

Stock Raptors hit 35-38hp by my observation. With a GYTR tip, needles, jets and the air box lid removed, I get 48 without a problem. Add a cam with the stock piston and 52+ is there. Perhaps you fail to understand that the Raptor is substantially restricted in stock form (perhaps because Yamaha does not want to sell something fast to someone like you -- for the safety of others). The horsepower gains are common knowledge and not wishful thinking.

Add a cam and 102mm piston with proper porting and you get over 60hp. Go with a 105mm piston and you easily get 70. Work on some carbs and cam specs and 75 is easy. Add a 4mm stroke and 80+ hp is reality.

The Raptor already has some serious mods available. Gains of this proportion are possible because you're starting with 660cc of diplacement. PAMI also gets these types of gains on the DS, so it's not just a Raptor thing. (RULE: There's NO SUBSTITUTE for displacement.) Big HP needs big displacement to start with. C-dale is running the same displacement that you already have, and the C-dale was scheduled to be a 400cc until Honda brought out the 400EX. So they may not be much room to bore and stroke it. For my money, a dedicated duner needs to have big displacement to start with and room to grow. Right now that's the Raptor, the DS, and the new Kawi 650 sport quad that's coming. Everything else gets in line. As a sidelight, Cannondale lost $6 million dollars this year ($2.70 per share), and it don't take too many of those and they're gone.

 

Raptor's got too many chassis flaws that need to be overcome. Gotta spend a lot of $$$ to get real power out of it. Still haven't seen a truly fast one at the dunes. Seen tons of fast 400's, DS650s, and C-Dales. That tells you something...

I'd say if you have to have a new quad right now, get the C-Dale without a doubt. I've seen them repeatedly spank hopped up Raptors (by a large margin)... They have a much better chassis as well. Great all around machine. They've got MUCH better power delivery for the sand than the Raptor.

Another option to consider is that you will get nothing out of your 400 compared to what you have in it. Price is down on used 400's, especially modified ones. Too many clean stockers on the market... Think about an engine swap if you want a duner. Consider the money you'll lose when you sell it and the hit you'll take on a new quad... It would likely be money saved to sell your existing engine and get an XR650R (if you're looking to stay 4 stroke). It's much more powerful to begin with than a Raptor, and has a proven upgrade path (plus it's a Honda). Plus you'll have something unique and eye catching when finished. As you likely already know, OEM replacement parts for consumables (like plastic) are really cheap for an EX - yet another bonus...

Those would be my two choices. If I was going to do a strictly hill shooter & drag race 4-stroker, it would be TRX650R all the way - that is, unless you can afford to build a TRX450R. For sand trails, and general tearing around, with an occasional drag race - C-Dale.

BTW, saw my first CRF450R 2 days ago... My God did it ever have instant power, and sounded really good to boot...

Oh yeah - a piped Raptor has NO WHERE NEAR 48 RWHP. Someone's dreaming. "There's no replacement for displacement" - Old Shool BS - on an equal playing field where technology and weight do not matter, yes - the real world, a restounding NO. Give me a CRF450R or YZ426F engine any day over an XR600, or most any other 600+cc class dirtbike engine.

Anyone that's ever watched or raced in a sand drag knows that a piped Raptor would be very lucky to put out anything more than high 30's at the back tires.


Gabe

 

Hmm ... If I may I would like to add my two cents worh here...
I was pretty gung-ho about the Raptor espially when compared money wise to the cannondale, but recently I have really been upset from what I have been hearing from the pros, and many of my friends. Let me explain. First off I just came back from nationals in Crawfordsville, IN. Last year I saw at least 3 raptors competing out of over probably a couple hundred quads, this year not even one. I have a couple friends that are trying to find buyers right now to get rid of their raptors. They have had all kinds of problems with theirs. from blown rings, to bent upper a arms (from what I hear are vary thin aluminum), and bending handle bars, snapping clutch levers, ect; Now most of these guys are pretty hard on their machines, but from what I was told Yamaha Raptors are good up to a point, and then if you push them any harder they start bending and breaking parts way earlier than compared to other quads. It seems that Yamaha in the search of lightening up the Raptor has done some serious reducing of the structure integrity. When I was getting gas on my way to nationals I was talking to the gas station attendant, he also said his brother was wanting to sell his Raptor and go back to 250Rs, because he was tired of blowing rings. I honestly have vary little time on a raptor, but only your can decide if the risk is great enough for you when spending that type of money, I would deffinately go for a heavier quad if this meant having a stronger chassis. As for the Bombardier, I have heard nothing but good things, and despite its weight I have heard people taking 50 foot jumps in the dunes and having no problems what so ever. I don't know go figure...

 

Im not all that impressed with the Raptor. Rode one and new Id never own one. Nothing in particualr about it, but it felt tippy and sorta sluggish. I have ridden a piped Bomb, and I really liked that machine. Someone said something about jumping the bomb, like he was shocked to see it happen. Brother, with 12 inches of travel front and rear, you better be able to jump!!! Not to mention, it won the Baja 2000 this year. Its a solid machine...

RoostKing...

 

I too will have to give the nod to the DS. I had the opportunity to ride and drag race two of them last time I was in the dunes... One had a pipe and carb, the other had pipe, carb, piston and cam... Very strong bikes. I even beat a drag piped narrow'd Banshee with the faster one (by a significant margin).

They are heavy, they ride smooth, they feel a bit funny at first - but I think after a while you'd get used to it.

I don't think I'd ever attempt jumping one like I jump my 400 and they're not woods bikes, but in the sand they work pretty well and are definitely fun to ride.

If I had to choose between a Raptor and a DS for a dunes quad, in my experience with the two there would be no 2nd thoughts, the DS would easily be my choice...

 

you can take this and take that but when you get to the top of ANY hill there will be my little mojave .......the little bike that can.,...... all 350cc of it ...