gezz you are saying i was brand bashing hardly i am a honda owner never gonna buy anything else i was just pointed out some facts (like honda has been using disk brakes for years) and honda brakes really are the down fall i would like to have disk brakes on my honda utiltys i dont see why honda dosnt add them o well i still love my hondas just anthor thing i wish they had

 

It's like this. When someone bashes (puts down) someone or something he/she is doing so to cover their inadequatcies or feelings of inferiorty.


Heres something to think about. Some have heard this before. Opinions are like a--h----, everybody
has one and they usually stink. However, if you keep an open mind and can weed through all the crap you can figure out who is giving an opinion based on intelligent fact finding or one of ignorance.

 

I understand that you are not saying Honda is a bad atv. I appologize if I came across that way. I know that Yamaha makes a very good product and is probably as good as the Honda in my opinion. Here we go again with that word. It all boils down to this. You have to weigh the pros and cons of the products you are comparing and decide which is the best for you. There are a lot of very good atv's on the market and this makes any decision to buy a difficult one. As I stated earlier I had a 1999 SP500 and thought it was a very good machine. There were a few things on the machine that I personally did not care for so I opted to sell it and purchase a Rubicon. Only time will tell if I made the right decision. All I can say is, I hope I did. I will purchase an extended warranty just because it is a new machine and hope I never have to use it. By the way, I sold the SP500 to a friend of mine. If I had thought the SP500 was a bad machine I would have never sold it to a friend.

 

It lonely at the top. When you are top dog, which Honda is by being #1 in sales, everone is out to take you down.

We looked long & hard at quads befor purchasing. My wife narrowed her choice down to the Recon, it fit her better than the beartracker & the bayou 220. This is her first quad. Comfort is a big part. I then looked at the 450 & Kodiak. I didn't like the 450 but loved the Kodiak. Then I read many of the posts on this forum & test drove the Rancher. The AP differential was the deciding factor over the Kodiak, plus the LCD readout was a plus.

The fact is if you don't like what Honda offers then you don't have to buy it. Its called choice. So what the problems here?

 

Getting back to the point.

Why did Honda leave the AP differential off of the 450 models? Do they make more profit per vehicle based upon the Rancher line up and want to steer the consumer in that direction?

Opinions? Sure I have one. So does the person with the opinion about opnions.

Is Honda conservative? Look at their sport bikes and their proposed motorcycle line-up for 2001. This is the company that introduced the cycle world to oval shaped pistons. Honda is first and foremost an "engine company". They have never been known as marketing gurus. They believe in building engines with durability, economy, and power in that order.

It was the Formula One proram which forced Honda to get it's head out of the sand and move forward, but they do not always do everything right.

The Honda corporation can be very stubborn when it comes to decisions between popular items verses engineering function. You haven't seen a Honda V8 have you? Even though the luxury car market demands it. (Acura)

How many years did it take Honda to enter the V Twin Cycle market? Too many because they firmly believe that the inline-4 is a superior engine (and it is) but if the U.S. market wants V-Twins that rumble down the road that is what they will buy. Harleys would not be nearly as popular as they are if Honda had jumped on the V Twin bandwagon in 1984 like they should have.

Honda is giving you, what they want to give you again, because they know what is best for you, (they think).

But I for one would still opt for a 2wd/4wd lever if I were in product design. In addition to the new differential which should be all available modesl. I would also make a lap-top programmable rev-limiter for the Rubicon.

It would not surprise me at all that the 450 will be a build-out model (using up all the old parts)
and will then be discontinued.

Hondas are durable, and I have one in the garage, but at times their conservative marketing approach makes me pine for more.

Yamaha and Polaris are much more adaptable to change than Honda. IMHO

 

Ok hold on. I have a 1998 Honda Recon and a 1986 Yamaha moto 4 they both have the same displacment and both perform great. The Yamaha has never broken down and has performed great. The honda has also never broken down and performed even better.
I almost like the older quads because they are a hell of a lot more durable and dont have all that fancy dancy stuff that will just break and cost more money to fix.
This is also why I picked the Honda recon, It is just a plain old great performing bike and thats just fine the only up to date thing on the bike is the sideways mounted engine.
I guess what I am trying to say is "if it aint broke dont fix it" and I think thats the attitude that honda is trying to maintain. Honda is selling bikes on there reliability reputation and why would they want to change anything on there bikes, they are working great and the owners all know this. I mean honda builds a great machine no matter what it is and thousands of atv owners know this and respect it. The old Honda is great and the new Honda is even better, I think that they are going down the right road by keeping it simple.
I hope that honda owners read this and say "yeah I really do have a good machine" and thats all that matters.

 

Thor
Good points..brought up by everyone...I am still wondering when my outdated 4 wheel system will let me down.I ride with 4 Polaris riders who are amazed I can follow them everywhere they go...sure we All get mired and help each other out..and I did take a ribbing when i got hung up in gas tank deep loon crap..it was a clearance issue...but I got even when I pulled A polaris home..mud packed the radiator full and it over heated..helping out is what friends are for.
I paid 5600 out the door in '99 and you can still pick a 450es for 5800 ...I feel that's not so bad when you compare cost of oher "toys" and see how prices have risen.
I still haven't seen one owner survey saying we are un-happy with our brakes..they are Quiet and seem to stop Hondas quickly.
Polaris does seem to have a model for everybody..and Honda is conservative about issuing new models ...I bet it is a proffit thing...
Is there such a thing as a perfect machine....one that is just right for everyone all the time?
Maybe next year!!!

 

Bill 450es got it right,it is a money issue.Polaris has already went bankrupt once,thats why they entered the quad market.How many times has Honda went bankrupt?

 

I called around for my father who wants a new Atv he is a Honda fan and was suprised to find the 450 Forman ES only $100 less than a 500 Magnum,A 350 fourtrax(Rancher)same price as 400 Bigbear and was told by the dealer the Rubicon will be $1000 more than a 500 Suzuki, Artic Cat.

 

1. Why did Honda put the supposedly great front end on the Rancher and leave the foreman out in the cold, wouldn't it have made more sense to have put the great AP front end on both machines???

2. The thing with the 2x4 switch could greatly improve 3 things on the honda you could then put lockers on it for when you really hit rough terrain, could have fun sport riding with the switch in 2 wheel drive and yes I know if you wanted a sport bike you would have bought one just maybe though you are missing out on some of the 2 wheel riding Polaris owners aren't and last as good as the Rubicon steers you can't make me believe it wouldn't steer better with it in just 2 wheel drive.

3. So I guess the disc brakes are good enough for the sport bikes but not for the ute bikes what kind of marketing is this.

4. And you have to admit Honda in the future is going to have to do something with that solid axle design in the future, to some it may be exceptable but if you ever ride an IRS I really think you will change your mind or at least come up with something like on the Artic CAt.

Every ATV has to evolve if it doesn't it will fall behind the pack yes Honda is very reliable but I would rather have some stuff on an ATV than not have it because of reliability I guess this is just narrowed down to riders choice. I really do think though it would have been more than fair if Honda would have kept its prices down with just adding new graphics...Polaris did, I am really afraid Honda is going to price itself out of the market place. And again fellows this post is not a bashing post it is just an opinion, I just went out and bought a 84 Honda 125 CR because it was one of the best bikes built in that area for a dirt bike to have fun on and guess what its water cooled...well imagine that.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THIS IS BASHING DID ANYBODY SAY HONDA SUCKED OR ANY STUPID REMARK LIKE. ARE NOT ALL THAT I WROTE ABOUT HONDA FACT, WELL I GUESS IF I AM BASHING EVERYONE WHO POSTED TO THIS IS. This guy sledder always follows me around on this BB claiming I am a basher and trying to start stuff obviously because he is some young little punk who got his feeling hurt when I told him the truth about his precious Honda. Even some of the Honda owners said they would like to see improvements and additions to their ATV's so I guess they are bashing to. To really show you what a wiz junior is he brought up about going bankrupt well go ask Chrysler about that the 3 largest car company in the world if you don't know what you are talking about don't post it so you will look so stupid. Some people talked about Honda shouldn't fix something that isn't broke well the Model T wasn't either but I doubt if would compete in this market place. I am making no comparison of a model T with a Honda just making a point and again fellows this is no bash just facts and opinions like I said I own a 84 model 125 cr dirt bike and I think it is a great machine in the dirt and ATV market this is just my facts and opinions if you can't take the truth don't read it.