Actually I was trying to be as unbiased as I can. I owned an 89 250R for more than 10 years so the Honda was very appealing to me.
I saw these comments on another forum and wanted you guys to give me your thoughts. I do appriciate your responses and have takin them into consideration, Thanks.
However I have found that some people are so diehard Honda that no matter what they offered it would be considered the best thing since sliced bread and no other models could ever be even compared to it. I have put you into this catagory. Primarily because when faced with the straight facts such as if the FCR carb is better you talked it up like it was no big deal and unimportant. I don't think any serious racer would go out and buy the 450R carb to go racing with but they do go out and buy the FCR. So it pretty obvious the FCR is superior. Then if another machine is the same weight than they must be lying and Honda is really 350#. I just don't buy it. Everything is not a consperacy. Maybe I am reading to much into it but by your account the Honda a perfect race machine like they claim and everyone else is lying or not as good.
Here is my final conclusion.

The Honda will be a good play bike in stock form for the casual everyday rider, In fact probably better than the YFZ because according to everthing I have seen it likes to be ridden extremely hard. I am sure the Honda will be able to be putted around no problem.

For Novice to Expert racers or performance recreational guys the YFZ will be cheaper and easier to modify. No Carbs to buy, No cams to buy, No high compression pistons to buy, Etc...

For all out Pro caliber racing it won't matter either way. Both bikes will be pretty equal and very competitive because these guys will basically convert there machines back to full CRF spec. The YFZ is already 95% there. But the results will be the same full CRF engines against full YZF Motors. Plus suspension, a-arms, axles and all that for both machines.

All though I don't race I would put my needs into that second Performance recreational catagory so my choice is actually pretty easy.

So anyway I have made up my mind and I do appriciate your input it definately help me make my choice. Like you said at least we have one now.

 

Wow this should be fun. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Sometimes I wonder if I am totally wasting my time in replying to certain threads because the recent "I wanna YFZ anyway" posts seem to totally ignore what was posted (I bet Gabe bounces off the walls in that super hero suit LMAO).

Maybe it would be easier to understand put more simply! The two machines seem to be very fricken compareable and the Honda isnt even out yet so we are comparing a new machine with limited use to AIR! Guess what then this is all BS till the Honda is out of production.

Add to that the comments on how we mostly all ride modded machines (Allmost every point/part debated except for the frame and engine cases/trans etc is aftermarket on my and most peoples quads I ride with) why even bother to bring up carbs and suspension at all.

If you have allready decided that the Yamaha or Honda is the best then dont bother because you are now debating your decision and not the facts. The red or blue loyalists are allmost as annoying as the fact that there has been a better or more high tech machine (with all the features everyone wanted to see in the new quads) avail for some time but was ignored so strongly by the Honda and Yami loyalists that they unded up in bankruptcy. This is what happens when you buy based on hype and not based on what you really wanted etc.

Nuff said?

 

Ya..well yami's are huge pos's they break all the time..and they ride like a poop stick..give it time..soon the yzf's problems will come to life..ive already heard of guys crabbin about broking yzf's...honda makes great quad's I my self have never had my honda's fail on me..not even our 86 200x..I havent seen a yellow yami that runs in quite some time now..the point is honda only sticks to what they KNOW is good..even though i might buy kawi's new 450 offering that they are coming out with dont mean I wouldnt like one of those new TRX450r's..i just like trying new stuff..btw..nice post 250r!!

 

trx 11t.....question ...which is less expensive? To take an existing engine pretty much stock from an existing product already developed, and make a frame into which it will fit, or to take an existing engine and make significant changes which will no doubt improve the long term reliability of the product, but require serious design time and testing be done before it's released?

The gamble is that cost of development and testing will be offset by the long term reputation for reliability generating more sales, and the reduced warranty costs from having a purpose built motor. No racer will ever be happy with stock anything...that's a given, so leave them lot's of opportunity to do their thing and maintain the reliability and reputation of the stock product. Cannondale could have learned a bit from that and might still be around.

Building an"off the shelf" racer, appeals to very few competitors who desire uniqueness almost as much as speed, as a manufacturer why bother? All it will generate is higher warranty, reduced percieved and real reliability, and greater liability.

 

Mega saw your post about new Honda. Bet your new KTM 450 is awesome. Have a 2002 KTM 520 exc in my WTEC Eraser. IT RIPS!!!! 10 months old, no problems!! If KTM made quads they'd clean up. Check out my page pictures. Later Bruce PS also have Z400 w/ LRD 440 kit good but not up to the KTM.

 

Man, i really think you are an ignorant person, im not making fun of you, just telling you what ive noticed. you are very caught up in a yfz and wont give honda a chance, you cant see why honda has chosen the reasons they did in building a quad,you are VERY biased, you nit pick all these tiny things about the honda and dont bother to point out the weaknesses in the yamaha like 1986atc250r is, dont take it the wrong way, im just pointing out the facts ive noticed. Keep these useful intellegent posts coming atc250r.

 

I want to see it run, but what happened with the design? We can argue engine, suspension, etc. and until it runs you don't know for sure. BUt the design you can see from the website shows very little creativity. Like it or not the Raptor and DS show some originallity in body design.

 

Raptor and DS look unique, yes but so does the the Gas Gas, V-Force, Predator, Cannondale, Tecate4, W-Tec, Banshee, Quadzilla and of course the QuadRacer250. I don't see where the 450R resembles the Suzuki clones except in the angular,creased rear fenders that Suzuki copied from the Raptor.

The YFZ is a sharp ride. It should be since it looks like a 250R with a filed-pointy nose, mid 90's Maier plastic with the intergrated plastic scoops and a set of Raptor lights duct taped to the upper shock mounts.
Wait till someone Dremels those side scoops off alomg with the fenders, rmoves the lights and puts a Quad Tech 250R style hood on it. You won't be able to tell it apart from a 250R. Especially in it's 89 250R white / red rip-off color scheme. Yamaha, hath thee no shame!

When I go to Glamis, I see HUNDREDS of 85-86 ATC250R's. I see a couple of Tri-Z "trailer queens" a year. 85-86-87-88-89 CR500's? Ton's. Yz490's? I've heard of sightings but nothing that can be proven scientifically. Honda off-road products last forever. And even though Yamaha has closed the once HUGE gap in quality somewhat, John Q Public still BELIEVES that comparing Honda off road products to ANYTHING else is like comparing Honda cars to Hyundai's.

 

Competition is good, but it is actually unfortunate that the two 450's came out at the same time. Everybody keeps comparing the two. OK both engines are modern, high revvvvvvving screamers, but actually the two are not much alike in terms of chassis. IT IS LIKE COMPARING APPLES AND ORANGES!!

One has the geometry of an all around machine (the venerable 250R) and the other is pretty much a dedicated MX bike. Hey, the TRX is going to race the Baja 1000.......THAT AIN'T NO MX BIKE!!! I have put in a few hours on the YFZ, and it is a good duner/freestyle jumping machine. But the bike is out of its primary element almost anywhere except on the track! (As an aside, I think that with softer suspension, the YFZ will make a great dune machine??????)

 

Actually the gain from using lightweight titanium valves and reduced spring rates to lower total engine internal friction is estimated at a 20 - 25% friction reduction. The gains maybe a little greater than shown here. Not all Titanium valves are created equal either, so reliability can a major factor even when using the most exotic of these valves. On the exhaust side particularily the heat is an issue for elongation of the valve, as well as galling in the guides, and loss of seat profile. Some of the more expensive coatings and special titanium alloys have overcome some of these problems, but again not all titanium valves are created equal, nor are they priced equally.

As posted in here - there are people already changing back to stainless valves for certain competitive applications - for reliability reasons. Where you are a sponsored racer who can afford to have your dedicated mechanic overhaul your engine between hard uses......then going exotic may be fine, for the rest of us we may prefer to get a few more hours out of the equipment before tearing it down.