James and Komo-Thanks! That is what I was looking for, some testimonials from somebody actually using a synth in the autoclutch Hondas. If you look at the specs, Mobil 1 and Amsoil (PAO's) are very similar. In my manual cluth bikes I prefer to run Maxima Ultra or Motul 5100 (Ester Synthetics), which even have some advantages over the PAO's.

 

Just an update. I am easing into the change to a synthetic, and seeing what happens. I am now running Maxima Synth Blend (a synthetic ester/petrolium blend), with no problems (like slipping clutches). I will probably just stick with the blend for the kids bikes, but will eventually try Maxima Extra in the Ranchers.

There has been some speculation about the composition of Honda's HP4 synth blend oil. It is just ridiculous that these big motorcycle companies don't publish any technical data on their branded oils. Very good reason to boycot them, in my opinion! One guy posted that HP4 is just GN4 with some Mobil 1 added. I don't think I can agree with that??? Mobil 1 has no smell whatsoever. If you smell a bottle of HP4, it has a very distinct smell of an ester synthetic, which no doubt accounts for its high price! That means that HP4 was probably once a very good oil, back when it as still SG.

 

I think the problem is with moly and not whether the oil is natural or lab made.
SG oil has the same quality level as the SL oils. They just have different additives. SG is the preferred oil for almost all motorcycles and quads, which have the tranny oil and engine oil in the same sump.The reason for this, is the later oils arent meant for meshing gears, like the quads have in the tranny. Car motors dont have the meshing gears, so those oils are fine for them.The antiwear and anti gall and antiscuff, ingrediants are higher in the SG oil. So to use a modern oil, that does not have the SG rating, will actually cause problems. The owners manual says to use SG on honda, due to the needs of the transmission. And no moly,(look for the energy conserving star...if it has one, it has moly), to protect both clutches the centrifical and the wet plate clutch.
Ive used synthetic oil in my foreman, and in the summer i use the cheap autozone old car oil for 69 cents a quart, its rated SG, which means it has the correct additives, and no moly.Theres no sense in spending anymore than is necessary. But in the winter I use synthetic oil so it gets better lubrication on start up.

 

Ah, it's a brave soul that uses $0.69 car oil in his bike!

Synthetics are expensive (and ester synthetics are VERY expensive) because synthetics are expensive, not necessarily because they are just trying to rip you off. Synthetic oils are one place where a little extra money will get you a far superior product! Anybody who can afford a bike, gas, tires, etc., can afford a high quality oil.

http://www.maximausa.com/technical/l...beNews2002.pdf

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

 

I dont loose any sleep over it. My yamaha service and owners manual only says "10w 30 wieght SG oil", and thats what it says on the bottle of oil from autozone. Its amazing how well marketing and propaganda works on americans. We all buy into the top of the line mentality, when the 69 cent oil is all you need. We tell ourselves we deserve it, or our quads are worth it.
Truth is, its the oil recommended and spending more doesnt equate to getting more. SG is SG, they all have the same ingrediants, and have to meet the same minimum standards.
If you needed a blood transfussion....would you question the sourse of the blood (eating habits, generics, deaseases, sexual orintation of the donor), or would you just take it, knowing that blood is blood? If you are like most of us, youd accept the generic blood, going into your body, but you wont take generic oil in a 1000 dollar motor.

 

Don't believe it folks! Real good example of why it is a dumb idea to ever buy a used vehicle........you don't have any idea how it was maintained.

 

the royal purpal synthetic is the best synthetic IMO, thats what i use and it meets all the requirements for a auto clutch and it says that its wet clutch safe on the back of the bottle and it has a high film strength, and it susposidaly has somthing in it that micropolishes the cylinder head to get rid of and prevent scoring. its also fairly cheap at 6 bucks a quart but the only place i have been able to find it is at a aftermarket car parts store. the stuff below is from the royal purple web site

Max-Cycle® is specifically formulated to significantly improve motorcycle engine (and transmission) performance. It’s recommended for use in both air-cooled and liquid-cooled 4-cycle engines and it’s compatible with wet-clutch transmissions.

Formulated with select synthetic base oils and Royal Purple's proprietary Synerlec® additive technology, Max-Cycle® provides unparalled film strength that is up to 400 percent stronger than the leading synthetic and mineral oil. Its shear stability and oxidation resistance promote greater performance and protection.

Independent Test Lonview Inspection conducted a test to determine if switching to Royal Purple's Max-Cycle® would reduce motorcycle operating temperatures.

Conclusion Switching to Max-Cycle® throughout the motorcycle reduced engine operating temperatures from 24-44 degrees F.



Synerlec® greatly reduces engine wear — including ring, cylinder and bearing wear. It continuously adheres to metal surfaces, even after shutdown, to provide instant protection at startup until a full fluid film can be established.

Max-Cycle® exceeds API / JASO new warranty requirements and is compatible with other mineral and synthetic motor oils. No flushing is necessary prior to use. It’s available in 10W30, 10W40 and 20W50 viscosities.

 

A more effective argument would use facts and logic, ..rather than fear mongering and opinions.
The facts are these. Yamaha recommends, and this is an exact quote "api service SE,SF,SG or higher". My honda service manual says SF or SG oil. Thats all, ...no fine print, doesnt mention brand, doesnt say synthetic or natural. As long as the container says SE or newer, its good to go. Yamaha will not and actually can not void your warentee if you use autozone sg oil. It meets all the requirements of API SG oil...and if it didnt, then the API would revoke the license for the oil.
As a side note, the service manuals dont say API SL or higher, they make it a point, that using the older classifcation of oil is just fine.
If you want to spend more than is necesary...its your wallet. But there are others who read these posts, and Id like them to know, its perfectly fine to use the cheaper oils, as long as they meet the specs, set out by API.

Now if you can come up with facts which dispute this....Id welcome hearing it.

 

There's OK, then there's good, then better, then best. Some guys are willing to settle for just OK. Personally, I'll take best every time.

 

I have an '04 Rancher 350 and my Honda service manual says API SG, and also JASO T 903 standard MA.
The MA standard is what sets it apart from the other oils like valvoline that you put in your car. The MA is a motorcycle standard that conventional oils (automotive grade) dont have. Automotive oils sometime contain zinc, Moly, and other things that work good for metal-to-metal contact, since that's the only thing touchin in an automotive engine. In atv's, the engine, transmission, and clutch all share the same oil, that's why theres that extra MA standard. These oils only contain additives that are compatible with clutch material, not moly and zinc or whatever is in automotive oils, cuz they might make a wet clutch slip. Thats why you need to make sure the oil you use is the proper API rating, but also the correct motorcycle rating.

I use Amsoil motorcycle 10w40. Says right on the back JASO-MA and API SJ (newer than SG) and wet clutch compatible. I go mudding a lot and that clutch gets worked, still rock solid with this oil.