I dont think the Rubicon is a dog by any means, probably the fastest of all the 500 autos. But I am sure your 700 would womp a Rubicon. Never rode a 700, sounds like you're going to need to ride a Rubicon.

 

My buddy has both a P700 and a V-force, and they both freewheel after a few seconds when you let off the throtle. This is just ridiculous for any type of technical riding! I understand that you can get different weights for the centrifugal clutch, and improve this.

Sometimes I wonder if the folks who design these ute machines have ever actually ridden a nasty technical trail??? The push seems to be toward large/heavy "cruiser couch" machines, that cater to "unathletic" senior citizen types. Thing is, the places where a cruiser does well, are the same places where you might as well just be on a sport bike, that's 300 lbs. lighter. Even an average handling sport bike has much better suspension than the best utes.

Thawk-Does it help to put it in ESP and hold it in 1st gear??? (My Suburban doesn't have great engine braking either! Plus, it is underbraked.)

 

I would not want a 800 lb ATV for technical trails. It surprises me every time I ride our Rubicon through a nasty place, and one of my daughters doesn't want to, and I then ride our Rancher through the same place. The Rancher always seems to do it a little easier. The one place I do feel the Rubicon is stabler is on side hills.

1st gear - low range in the Rubicon is lower than the Rancher in 1st. Decending very steep hills, you have to ride the brakes on the Rancher to keep from rearending the Rubicon.

 

The only place a P700 would be better suited on a trail is if you were racing and busted out into a open road or field, it would out run the rubicon by a few seconds, on tech trail riding the rubicon will kill a P700 if any down hill riding where a ebs is needed, the P700 has ok braking, I have heard stories of freewheeling but never did enough of steep downhills on ours to experance it, weight on the two is the same, but the ride is totaly different, the P700 is rough riding and tippy on off camber corners , the rubicon is stable and rides near as good as my polaris with IRS, I like both machines, the act a fool factor, wheelies, side spinouts and the such are the P700's strong point, the rubicon will out perform it in true trail riding and your pucker factor will be much less on inclines and off camber riding, plus if your not in 100% athletic condition, as with most of us, you will feel much less fatigued after a day riding a rubicon than the P700. these are just my findings from riding both machines on the same trails.

 

I tend to agree that the geared transmissions have better braking qualities than the autos, hands down. It's comforting to let the throttle close on a really nasty downhill, and feel the engine drag the speed down to a crawl.
I have had occasion to wonder if it's the best thing, on the other hand. I was descending an icy hill with a skim of snow on top of the crust a few weeks back, and I was using engine braking and leaving the brakes alone. The thought occurred to me that it might not be so good if the tires started to slide and the whole thing got sideways as a result. Having to add throttle in a situation like that to stop the wheels from sliding would be an unnerving experience, at least to me. It would only be a problem in 4x4, but still unpleasant.

 

From my experiences, the kaw is a better fit and feel than the honda. The kawi is way smoother from what i got from riding both. Both of them are really sweet though.

 

If you are having problems with engine braking on a Rincon, there are a few issues that could be at hand. One is the idle speed has to be at 1400 RPM and not lower. There is a shuttle valve within the valve body for the transmission that applys during deceleration to a sprag bearing in the torque converter, on the crankshaft. So the torque converter is bypassed to achieve total engine braking. That is how this transmission is different from a cars transmission operation. If the idle is too low, there is not enough oil pressure to make this shuttle valve operate correctly during deceleration. And probably why you note engine braking when a little throttle is applied.
The second thing that could be causing the poor engine braking is a loss of oil pressure. There are a few stubby oil tubes that have o-rings around them, that connect the front engine cover oil passages to the front crankcase half passages. If during front cover installation, these tubes may not be totally straight, allowing the o-rings to get damaged when the front cover is installed. In which will cause an 'oil leak' inside the engine, which actually is noticed by low oil pressure it causes. This can contribute to poor engine braking like I described above with the shuttle valve not having enough pressure to apply the engine braking sprag bearing. I will tell you this though, this internal leak may also cause top end problems also and can have a noticeable power loss, or feels like the transmission is slipping when the unit is climbing inclines.
Now just because I posted this second part on the internet, it does not mean there is a reacll or service bulletin on the Rincon. It has happened on a few units out of thousands that have not had the problem. The ones I have found this way have had the front engine cover removed for one reason or another and a careless tech installed it improperly, damaging the o-rings. If you feel you have this problem, schedule an appointment with your Honda service department and have them perform an oil pressure test. The test will yeild any info on the Hondamatic ( if performed completely ) in all the gears, idle, and max rpm for the tests.

Plain and simple though, turn up your idle and your engine braking should improve.

----- Gimpster -----

 

Hello:

Thanks for your technical inputs. All that makes great since and I will get to my Honda dealer and have the oil pressure checked as you describe and adjust the idle. If I understand you correctly the idle should be no lower than 1400 RPM. These are the type of answers I was hoping for. I have had this quad for about two weeks so it is still new and I got the extended warranty so all this should be covered. I really want to solve this issue of engine braking because after riding it for the first couple of times I felt I had made the wrong decision on what ATV to buy and was considering selling it because I do ride all kinds of terrain. I will be going to the Rocky Mountain Jamboree in September this as I have done and I want a machine that I can count on. I have no doubt that it will be a Honda as I had mentioned in my first post I had a 2003 Foreman 450S and loved it. I mainly wanted to upgrade to get the electric shift option but decided to go all the way to a Rincon. I really want this to work for me so I really appreciate your technical inputs. Do you feel that swap of drum brakes in the front to disc would be a good thing?

Thanks
Mark
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Discs are always a plus.

Also have the dealer reinitialize the ECM after resetting the the idle speed.

----- Gimpster -----

 

Thanks again:

What does ECM stand for?


Thanks