Thanks for all the input. I guess I have to decide which is more important. Riding with the kids or riding with the boys.

 

You just need to make the kids ride faster!! Just kidd'in! I looked at both and I am a loyal Honda man myself, but comparing the EX to the Z is a no brainer! The detail in the zuki makes the EX look like something from another century. The z's got piggy back shocks and is water cooled. I had a hard time not buying a 400EX but when they are sitting side by side it's real easy to pick out the winner.

 

Thanks for everyones input. It looks like I may be swaying to the LTZ 400. After some research it appears to be a solid reliable bike. It should be a Honda. Maybe someday they will make one this size.

 

I have an 06 450er and while it likes to rev out, I can ride slow in first gear. Not as slow as my friends z400 but deffinitaly slower then my buddies 05 450r. And for trail ridding you can't beat the electric start. I have always been a Honda man, and had a little stint on a Polaris, but I will admit the z is a hell of a trail bike, and has reverse. In my opinion I would get the 450r just because its more of a challenge but not too difficult. The power hits hard, seems to rev forever, and has a much better feel than the z400. Once you get into the straight parts of the trail and get into the 450r the z doesn't even have a chance to hang for a second. So I hope this helps with your decision. Either way your taking your kids ridding and that's what its all about.

Nez

 

if you do get a 450r becareful with starting the ele. start easy to mess up whole starting system. make sure you follow the starting procedure

 

A 400ex is not that inferior to the z400, I would not discount one especially if you like Honda .........

Sure the z400 is a bit quicker, and has better front suspension. But beyond that you have to really nit-pick to put down the Honda.....

Fact is for putting around with the kids the 400ex is far better... the z400 is much happier in the mid-range than it is lugging around. Not that lugging around will foul plugs on the z400, but the Honda is a torque beast and can pull you up and over surprisingly easy. The z400 requires a little more throttle to get up in the RPM range to hit the meat of the power.

Handling wise, they are just about even. Yes the front shocks on the z400 are vastly better, but unless you are a picky set-up guy you won't even notice.

I looked at both machines when I bought mine, and the only reason I ended up with the KFX was because the Honda dealer would not match what the Kawie dealer would do. Fact is the Suzuki dealer would not come down (I really wanted a yellow one) to meet the Green one either ....... I figured with the $700 I saved I could buy yellow plastic and Suzuki stickers if I really wanted to......

 

Is the idle speed really that high?

 

I think it is fairly obvious that you are not going to find one quad to perform the best in both worlds....riding with the kids, and hitting the dunes hard with the guys. I have the same dilemma. Can you justify owning two machines?
I think it would be hard to beat the properly geared 400EX for putting with the kids, in sand or dirt. And any of the new 450s are going to perform well in the big dunes.

I understand what you mean about not wanting to buy a non-Honda. But, I have ridden the Raptor 700 a few times and it is an excellent compromise....it will putt and it will almost keep up with the 450s in the dunes.
I found the Z400 just didn't have enough guts in the big dunes (like Glamis), although in all other respects it is an excellent choice. And if you ride a 250R now, you will not like "stepping down" to the Z400 power/weight ratio.

I think if you geared the new Honda450R down one tooth in the front, and then fine tuned with one tooth up, stock, or one tooth down in the back...you would be pretty happy in both riding worlds. Stock chain will work.
If you want to really compete in the big dunes you will want to add the HRC Kit for very little extra money.
If you are putting with the kids mostly in the sand, I think the 450R will be acceptable for you. You will not foul the plug, and I have not had overheating problems. You will have to shift, but gearing down helps that a lot....because you can spend a lot of time in 2nd gear. In any event, it will be far better than your 85 250R for playing with the kids.

Have Fun!

 

I couldn't imagine buying anything but a honda either, but that ended in 2002 when the 400ex couldn't keep up with the big bores.

There's no doubt in my mind that a 700R raptor would suit both of your needs with great satisfaction. If the zuki is the best all around quad on the market, the 700R is it's more powerful sibling.

Honda needed the XR650 in an atv a couple years ago. Unless they do some major overhauling of the 400ex they're really going to lose a lot of buisiness from buyers like you who are loyal to the product for it's quality. They already lost my business, but a strong 650 would be about the only thing that would bring me back.

 

In the dunes on the Raptor, I have to sit on the tank to keep the front end down! I really have to pay attention every minute, or i can get myself into trouble. The 450 is more of a rever not a torquer, so it is a little easier to handle. If you liked the 250R, you will most likely like the 450.

Some said the Z is down on power, but I wonder if they were riding a stock one???????? That engine has a lot of hop up potential, with just some simple mods. Sure, it isn't going to beat a 450 or big bore, but when riding an a group you will keep up just fine.