Thanks reconranger.

 

Interesting. I saw on Redline's page where they said their MB works with wet clutches...

I get stuff for the truck at synlubes.com and they have had great customer service, but I don't think they carry the motorcycle stuff.

 

Some notes on synthetic friction modifiers.....for those who may be interested (I'm a biochemist, so I sit around thinking about this kind of stuff)....

If you do a patent search on ester synthetic/friction modifiers, it can be seen that there is a lot of activity in this area! These molecules have the potential to significantly increase fuel efficiency (in a day of very high fuel prices!), but the drawback is they are very very expensive. For some reason, folks who are use to paying $2/quart for Spifylube mineral oil made from dead dinosaurs, balk at paying $10/quart for a space age synthetic oil created by a chemist in a lab....even though it will net them better gas mileage and an extended drain interval.

For those of us with wet clutch motorcycle engines, this issues in a new age where we can now have a highly friction modified oil (the equivalent of JASO MB), and yet not have our clutches slip! Redline, Maxima (Ultra and the new 530MX), and Klotz (Estrolin) for example, all have this technology available.

In the old days, the primary friction modifier was moly. One problem (besides clutch slippage) is that when you reached a certain point, the oil got so slick that the rings would begin to skate rather than seal, and you lose compression. This is less of an issue with synthetic friction modifiers. Also, the higher film strengths of synthetic oils, seal rings better to begin with.

Another huge advantage of ester synthetics, is that they have extremely high film strengths (HT/HS). This means that you can run a thinner oil with less fluid drag (better economy and performance), yet get the protection equal to a thicker oil from the past. Those who have recently purchased Hondas, will notice that the thicker oils (like 20W50) are now completely gone from the oil charts in your owner's manual. My new Rancher 420, even recommends 0W30 as a year round oil....something I have a hard time imagining, seeing I ride in the very hot southwest! All this reflects the increased quality of the oils that are now available. Honda's HP4 and now Yamalube for example, although they are blends, are fortified with ester synthetics. Honda now has fill synthetics oil, but I don't yet know anything specific about its composition.

Again though, the drawback will be high cost. Folks who are unable to see past that issue, will just have to continue to run dead dinosaur oil that was formulated to meet a $2/quart price point.....

 

Hey ReconRanger, thanks for the explanation.

I wonder how 10-W30 Redline would do in my Foreman and Rincon... I sometimes ride on 110+ F days, but also occasionally in below freezing temps. Maybe one oil would do well for all conditions?

I might e-mail Redline. They've been helpful answering questions I had about MTL in a NV5600 I had...

 

In most of the country, 10W40 is a good summer oil and 5W30 a winter oil. In the frozen north, probably 10W30 in summer and 0W30 in winter.

I am currently running Redline 10W40 in summer, and 10W30 in winter. Our summers are very hot here, but I only do evening and night rides during that time of year, after it has cooled off some. Winters here at low altitude are mild, but if I were to ride in colder weather at high altitude (which is very possible seeing we ride the Sierras), I will run a 5W30 (Maxima 530MX or Klotz).

I have had lots of discussions with Redline! I tell you, I really had to dig to get the JASO MB oil that is still compatible with a wet clutch story, out of them!!! All those guys are motocrossers who seem to ride 450R's, so they appreciate high quality oil. A year ago, they had no 10W30 in the motorcycle lineup, so I pointed out to them that Honda was now recommending ligher oils.....a few months later they came out with 10W30. I would love to see them come out with a 5W30 and even a 0W30, for those who ride in cold weather.

If you notice in Redlines literature, they talk about film strengths. For examle, a 40 weight Redline has the same film strength as a 50 weight mineral oil, so it acts like a 50 weight in the bearings and on the cylinder wall. Thus, you can run a thinner oil, and not give up any protection in hot weather.

 

Sometimes I ride in mountains where it's in the 20's and a few weeks later I might be in high temps in a low desert. The Rincon does OK with 10-40 in all conditions, as long as you let it idle long enough when it's cold. The transmission seems to need oil that heavy to get warm before it will shift firmly.

I'll probably ask them if they have experience with their oil in the Rincon when I get ready to do my next change...