Wow Gimp, very interesting info on the 420. I haven't had any complaints from our customers thus far regarding the smoking issues, but it rarely gets truly cold here even in the winter.
Great post as always. Food for thought

 

Since I can't PM you, I am not the brightest star in the sky, suppose what I did prooved that. I walked away from a Honda career of a few decades (since 86). Multiple complaints with the 420's this winter from customers and no support from Honda made me walk. It took a customer cornering our DSM one day not too long ago, for their eyebrows to lift toward the issues. Seems like when I reported any problems to Honda, techline obviously never relayed concerns to the next level. Honda informed our DSM they had no complaints about the 420's. He told them that he had many dealers that have been having issues. So my call times to techline were a waste as well as lost commission doing so.
On another note, I was surprised on Easter Day with 6 visits to my home from concearned customers I have in the Honda service world. Cards, e-mails and so forth are still rolling in from concerned customers. It makes me happy and sad at the same time. Honda should regulate the way their Powerhouse dealerships top technitions are treated. At 44, I fealt only near the peak of my career. I will stop there. A lot of knowledge on Hondas left the dealer with me, oh well.
I hope they resolve your ATV abmobil.
Knowsalot... If you are ever checking out techs on the Honda System, my DSP# is D064613

see ya

----- Gimpster -----

 

i hate the title of this thread....it makes it sound like the 420 is junk when its not.........i havent had any problems with mine

other than it backfiring. and i put a power comannder on it which i was going to do anyways

my 420 has run great and i have over 1600 miles and 162 hrs on since sept.

ive changed the oil more than i had to but that just me.

i know the gimpster has seen some problems but you have to admit your in an extreme place.

just my rant

 

The 420 is AWSOME.
Not saying you didnt ,but it seems many have failed to read my 1st post.

I explained that it was fully my fault that I had to get it rebuilt.
Now the issue is the dealer getting the rebuilt motor fixed right.

 

ive read ever post........people start to pick it apart.....i dont live at the artic circle and mine never smokes

never mind

 

I would like to get a 420 on a chassis dyno with a Power Commander and play....
Yes, the 420s are good units. Honestly though, since it is a 4 stroke Honda should have went with an injection system that was closed loop for their number one selling quad ! If you do not know the difference between open and closed loop fuel injection, here it is.

Open Loop

Open loop simply means there is no feedback of the result to the ECU. In our case, it means there is no sensing or measuring of the exhaust gas to see how the bike is running. The fuel injected is determined by the RPM and throttle position, derived from fuel injector pulse width numbers stored in the fuel maps, and is trimmed for environmental conditions due to air temperature, air pressure and engine temperature

Closed Loop

Closed loop means there is feedback of the result to the ECU. In our case, it means there is sensing or measuring of the exhaust gas to see how the bike is running. This sensing is done by a probe (a galvanic cell) which generates a voltage based on the gas around it. These probes are referred to as Oxygen sensors, Lambda sensors, O2 sensors, Exhaust Gas sensors and probably a few other names as well. The info is stored in the ECM as a base line that can change for optimum performance and fuel burn as the unit is ridden.

The 420 has an open loop fuel injection and cannot totally calibrate itself accurately without relying on the fuel maps within the ECM. That is where we are running into issues. Honda has these units mapped wrong, hence hard starting in cold and backfiring in the warmer climates. I slam the gavel down here.

As it was explained to me by Honda... "they are designed to start in these tempuratures" and "they were not tested in these tempuratures"

DOH.... Lets sell a bunch of units that we never tested fully.

Here I go again.... Honda Messed up on the mapping of their ECMs. Too rich on the bottom side. I could tell the first ride on a 420 that I took

They should have went with a CLOSED LOOP injection on ALL INJECTED QUADS period. Problem solved.

No problems with quads when used in different areas, no fouled plugs or washed rings leading to overfull oil from gas etc...

----- Gimpster -----

 

Gimpster , good luck in whatever you decide to do next in life-(like go in business for yourself fixing Honda products, after all your customers trust you). I want you to know I appreciate your willingness to help others on this forum.

 

jrafter,
let me know which map you go with on the power commander and how it works. Thanks

Hefty Lefty,
I have been slacking in the help department on here lately. Been crazy busy with a lot going on in the personal life from getting married next month to trying to round up funds for modern machinery to get a business up and going. Job interviews to get me by as well as helping my following customers along the way. Sprint racing is just around the corner... yada, yada.... Nuts, just been nuts...
Thanks for the appreciate, my friend

abmobil,
Keep us up to date... hope I am wrong in your case and all is well with the quad when you get it back

----- Gimpster -----

 

Update,
they called me yesterday ,and told me it was done ,but they were going to keep it overnight so they could heat cycle the engine a few times ,and make sure everything was right.

They called me again today ,and said they had bad news.
They said the motor is fine ,but its not pulling right.
They said they determined it to be clutch weights????

Keep in mind it has all new clutches.
They said my factory ones were fine ,but I requested new ones while it was torn down.

What the heck is a clutch weight?

And thanks allot Gimpster for all the feedback you have given!

 

Your wet clutch is the main clutch attatched to the end of the transmissions mainshaft. The centrifugal clutch is a drum connected to the crankshaft with gear teeth around the outside which drives the wet clutch. The drum has weights which swing out (connected directly to the crankshaft) that have clutch linings on the outside of them. This is basically your auto clutch. When the engine spins a certain rpm, the weights swing out and contact the drum which in turn make the drum spin and next spins the wet clutch.
Interesting, I never seen issues with them on the 420 though.

----- Gimpster -----