On a downshift you have to rev your engine, it feels very wierd and goes against your logic, your slowing down but giving it more gas.

 

If I'm down shifting I will use clutch, because like you said it feels weird. And if you mess up the slightest you are launching yourself.

 

After talking to a very qualified mechanic I stand corrected.

The only thing that will groove a clutch basket is sliding the clutch plates while under heavy load. The only time the clutch plates slide is while your moving the lever in or out. Hence, the only way to groove a basket is to use the clutch under heavy acceleration or deceleration. Baskets usually become grooved from feathering the clutch to apply max power exiting corners or on starts. So, shifting without the clutch has no bearing on the clutch basket.

Some of the Hondas used to shift easy under full load without using the clutch. That's not as true anymore. In order to get most bikes to shift without using the clutch you only have to slightly decrease the throttle which removes just a little of the tranny load and allows the cogs to move on the shaft.

In six years of serious mechanic work and 50 to 80 case splitting exercises, I've only seen a couple of tranny problems on modern race bikes. One was a bent shift fork on a 2004 KX250f, probably by landing a jump with a foot on the shifter instead of the peg, the other is a KTM250 that was run for a long period of time without any tranny oil. Tranny gears and shafts are very robust these days. I shift my bike lots without the use of the clutch and don't think I've done any damage.

My vote goes to "shifting without the clutch won't hurt the bike (meaning tranny)." It most definitely won't hurt any of the clutch parts, since you're not using them.

The only part in the clutch I'd expect you might hurt is the gear on the back of the clutch basket.

 

After talking to a very experienced and capable mechanic I stand corrected.

The only thing that will groove a clutch basket is sliding the clutch plates while under heavy load. The only time the clutch plates slide is while your moving the lever in or out. Hence, the only way to groove a basket is to use the clutch under heavy acceleration or deceleration. Baskets usually become grooved from feathering the clutch to apply max power exiting corners or on starts. So, shifting without the clutch has no bearing on the clutch basket.

Some of the Hondas used to shift easy under full load without using the clutch. That's not as true anymore. In order to get most bikes to shift without using the clutch you only have to slightly decrease the throttle which removes just a little of the tranny load and allows the cogs to move on the shaft.

In six years of serious mechanic work and 50 to 80 case splitting exercises, I've only seen a couple of tranny problems on modern race bikes. One was a bent shift fork on a 2004 KX250f, probably by landing a jump with a foot on the shifter instead of the peg, the other is a KTM250 that was run for a long period of time without any tranny oil. Tranny gears and shafts are very robust these days. I shift my bike lots without the use of the clutch and don't think I've done any damage.

My vote goes to "shifting without the clutch won't hurt the bike (meaning tranny)." It most definitely won't hurt any of the clutch parts, since you're not using them.

The only part in the clutch I'd expect you might hurt is the gear on the back of the clutch basket.

 

Sorry for the double post.

 

On the topic of worn clutches, who makes a quality rebuild kit? Also, for some reason my 400ex takes a little coaxing to get back into lower gears when standing still. Most of the time I actually have to let the clutch out a hair to get into second and first. Would a clutch rebuild fix this?

 

if any one hear has ever driven a truck (tractor trailer not pick up truck) you would understand that the clutch is not needed if you can match your rpm's with the gear you are going to. for example if you are going from 1st to second the engine has to slow down 500 rps for the gears to synk perfectly. when you are driving a truck, the engine has a chance to loose these 500 rpm's as you go through newtril to get to the next gear. on a bike, i would doubt if the engine has enough time to drop the required rpm to match the next gear, however im shure you could get close enough to do little damage. as far as down shifting, DONT DO IT!!! when you down shift like was said earlier you have the give the engine rps to match a lower gear, in a truck again you do this as you pass through newtril by giving it a shot of fuel, however on a bike that cant be done, and it is really hard on the bike to just jam it in to gear. perhaps some one else can explain it better than that but theres my two cents.

 

Your 2 cents is worth a dime. You explained it well enough and I totally agree. You can't go through neutral on a bike so downshifting w/o the clutch will do damage. One question I have is how close do you think the rpm's must be for an upshift? Like you said, it may not be perfect but it will be close enough. I have done it for a long time on many bikes and after some practice, you get to know your ratios and it seems to be fine.

 

If your RPMs are not in the right range you will feel almost a clunk when it drops in gear, since you are forcing the gears in it will make some noise that you won't miss. It won't feel like a nice smooth shift. You will know

 

lol this topics ben around a while...........somtimes i clutch sometimes i dont......
I say ride it like you stole it ..thats how i roll