mrk874 how much are the stealership getting for GN4 there? Here they get 5.99/ qt. So a rubi oil/filter cost about $48.00 ouch! It does't cost me that to have the changed by my dealer on my, 7 qt. requirement, hemi with conventional oil. The factory oils are a rip off. Your paying for a brand that does not exist. All the manufactures contract their labels/specs with an oil company. You don't see a honda oil company.
This taking advantage of customers has got to stop. It just like cell phones, they give great deals to get new customers and they do nothing incentive wise to keep an old customers.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JeffinTD

Sounds like you guys are on the same wavelength as I am about Amsoil...



I have faith in Redline, but it looks like their oil isn't rated MA.

Maybe I'll look at Maxima.</end quote></div>

Redline is MB but this is just a caveat of the JASO rating system! Redline is very slick, and that is why it is rater MB. I am seeing a horsepower/torque increase running it. This is where the future of performance oils is headed!

It does this with organic friction modifiers, but yet they are wet clutch safe (unlike the inorganic friction modifier, molebdenum disulfide). The thing is, JASO has no system by which to classify this type of friction modifier, so they are forced to call it MB. There may in the future be a new class, like MC, to account for this. (I have contacted Redline several times, telling them they need to explain this on their web site, but like everybody else they are slow to update things.)

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JeffinTD

So maybe the Maxima ATV 4T for a blend/dino in 10W40...



Would their 530MX 5W-30 be the choice in a full ester synthetic? The Maxmia 4 Ultra? Their site lists it as 100% ester, but one of the e-tailers listed it as a blend?</end quote></div>

Both these oils contain organic friction modifiers, similar to Redline. I really think that Maxima just ignores JASO and calls them MA anyway, just to avoid confusion. The "blend" thing, means that they are a blend of several different types of ester, plus every ester has some PAO thrown in for "balance" (ester and PAO compelment eachother in many ways).

530MX is uber expensive, and Ultra isn't cheap either!

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mrk874

Hi,



I'm using the pro-honda GN4 oil (OEM recommended) oil in my 08 Rancher. Is that good? I don't want to spend ton on oil...



Is it better to change oil more often or use a high quality synthetic and change less often? How often should I change the oil?



Thanks!</end quote></div>

The average recreational rider, probably isn't going to "wear out" their oil, when using any reasonable oil change interval. But for me, nothing is to good for my machines, so I run premium synthetic and change it fairly often. That means 5-10 hours for the 400EX, ~10 hours for the Ranchers, and 10-20 hours for the kids quads.

Note that one exception is the new generation 450 "thumper" sport quads!!! These have very small sumps, and have little slipper pistons that tolerate a lot of compression blow-by (vs the well sealed old school skirted pistons found in most other machines). This means that fuel rapidly contaminates the oil and dilutes it out. You start the day with a nice 10W40, and end up with a 5W30. Let that go to long, and you get a useless 0W20! 2-5 hours is my absolute max here.

A good article, on this issue: http://www.belray.com/scripts/...41d7-b921-64a4cf6d0144

 

Hey Recon,

What is the "problem" with Amsoil marketing strategy?

I saw comments above that you cannot just go to the store and buy it......huh? The main reason I started using Amsoil is because I could go to my local Honda/Yamaha dealer and buy it off the shelf. I was not even aware that there was something strange going on here as it has always been at my local dealers in both NJ and in NY.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Doctorturbo

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Is it better to change oil more often or use a high quality synthetic and change less often? How often should I change the oil? </end quote></div>

Really good question. Here are the facts.

A good quality synthetic will beat any dino oil in every catagory except price and value.



There is one glaring problem with synthetic oils and ATV's. Water is a contaminant to oil. Dirt and mud are contaminants to oil. A lot of people think their ATV is a boat..............and treat it as such. Once oil is contaminated, it's done. I don't care is it's the cheapest Walmart oil you can find on the shelf, or the mega buck oils that reconranger recomends. It's done, and you have to drop the plug on the sump.



The only really way to find out if the oil is done is to get an analysis on it. For cheap oils this does not make much sense unless you want to get a base line on it.



To the OP. Amsoil is damn good oil, no doubt about it. But........I can't believe I'm going to say this.............I agree with reconranger about their marketing practices.

You just can't go down to a store and buy your oil. I feel like I'm buying an oz of weed or something. LOL You got to know someone who knows someone who is a dealer...........then you go to your dealer and buy your oil. Just way too weird for me.</end quote></div>

I don't understand this......

I have been buying Amsoil off the shelf at local dealerships for years..... I've never had to deal with anything like you guys are saying here at all.... If I did I would NEVER have bought it in the first place I assure you.

But for me Amsoil has been on the shelf of the most respected dealerships in my area. And I've lived in NJ and NY state over the years and it was the same. Go to the dealer and there it is. Buying Amsoil has been no different than buying Yamalube or any other oil......

In fact I have had the opposite problem with Redline and Maxima oils. I can NEVER find they unless I order online.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MEGA XP

mrk874 how much are the stealership getting for GN4 there? Here they get 5.99/ qt. So a rubi oil/filter cost about $48.00 ouch! It does't cost me that to have the changed by my dealer on my, 7 qt. requirement, hemi with conventional oil. The factory oils are a rip off. Your paying for a brand that does not exist. All the manufactures contract their labels/specs with an oil company. You don't see a honda oil company.

This taking advantage of customers has got to stop. It just like cell phones, they give great deals to get new customers and they do nothing incentive wise to keep an old customers.</end quote></div>

Mega XP - I buy my GN4 from RMatv where after coupons and rewards cash it comes to about $4.39 qt. I only use 3 qts on my rancher and only 2 on my 250, so this is a reasonable cost for oil changes on an approx 20hr schedule (about 4-5 times a year).

For a filter I'm using K&N, but I'm considering changing to tusk because it's only a fraction of the price.

I agree that this is a branded oil, but I have never heard that it's a bad oil. Is there a cheaper place to get GN4? Also if there's an oil that's just as good but cheaper I'd consider that. I want my machine to last, but I don't want to overkill by spending too much on maintenence.

If you think I should be running a better oil (synthetic) - how much does that cost? I might be willing to pay more for something significantly better.

Thanks!

 

The only reason I brought up Amsoil is the guy I get my Redline GL-5 from sent a flyer that listed Amsoil's motorcycle oil being carried by them. (The AAM axles in my truck specify a 15k change, with full synthetic GL5).

Reconranger: I've heard Redline's motorcycle oil is OK for wet clutches, but as tough as Rincon transmissions seem to be, it looks like it would be a major pain to rebuild. I believe what you are saying, but I guess I'm just not willing to be the first person I know to actually try it in a Rincon.

Doctorturbo: I also agree with you about contamination being the limiting factor for any oil for most ATV users. As I understand it anyway, aside from dirt and mud just normal blowby gasses plus condensation will eventually form acids that exceed what the bases in the oil can neutralize...

At least that's what Blackstone seemed to think the issue was with the guy with the truck I posted about, and if I recall correctly he was running a snazzy partial pass filtration system in addition to a high performace filter in the factory location.


Another question: What's the opinion of Honda's HP4 (without molly). From what I've read, it's a decent oil, but not a good value for the money?

 

As for GN4/HP4....what worries me is that they are not API SG. You have to know some history to understand why:

ZDDP is an anit-wear additive, and it is your last ditch salvation if your oil ever fails. It is particularly important in the transmission of your quad (with integrated engine/transmission oils), because the gears tend to squeeze out the oil between them.

Back before 1993 "car" oils were rated SG, and had an optimum level of ZDDP. But....our dear (nanny state!) government stepped in, and decided we all needed catalytic converters. Thing is, ZDDP coats and inactivated the catalyst in the converter. So, the government mandated lowered levels of ZDDP in oils that came after SG (for example SJ, SL, SM).

As I recall Honda's branded oils are now SJ (but a few years ago, they were still SG and I sometimes ran them at that time!). Why would they do this??? Because with so many street bikes out there with catalytic converters, they want to have a "one size fits all" oil to market to both dirt riders who have no cat converters and street bikers, who do.

So....our dirt engines have no cat converter, so why would one ever want to accept a less than optimum level of ZDDP in your oil, just to accomodate some street riders???? Thing is, there are a hundred SG rated motorcycle oils out there to pick from, so why even take a chance????

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: tramp

Jeffin

I hope this doesn't get as heated here as it has on other forums. Here is my thought on Amway, uoops, I ment Amsoil. I have lost two snowmobile 2-stroke motors using Amway,uoops, I ment Amsoil. I was being a nice guy and bought it from a neighbor you had become a dealer. Never will I ever use the stuff again. And since I have quite using it, no further problems. It is an Amway marketing HYPE as far as I am concerned. The biggest argument is that most of Amsoil's products are not API rated and not sure that it is tested to be Jaso rated, much less MA approved as they claim. BE Carefull and use at your own risk. If you wish to read some testimonials check out Ford Truck Forum and search Amsoil in the Powerstroke Diesel section. It isn't pretty.</end quote></div>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>The biggest argument is that most of Amsoil's products are not API rated </end quote></div>

Not acorrding to Amsoil's site,they state API SJ, SH, SG, SF, CD, CF,JASO MA